[Timmy Boy]

Fox,
I am but a fledgling to this industry, and sure,  I could do with help on things.
I have already got the feeling from my father in law (been in the cleaning biz for 25+ years) that he does not want to give too many 'trade secrets' away. However as my business has grown he has mellowed a bit and gives me snippets which I greatfully receive.
I appreciate that my father in law may well know secrets to cleaning issues but by contrast I know more about employment law, management & Health & safety than he does and am always happy to help him out as much as I can.
I really do think that if you work hard you will get what you want. After all a question on which chemical to use on a floor will not win you a contract - you will need good references, a good price, a good sales banta and accept if your cleaner calls in sick the buck stops with you!!

I think what I am trying to say is if this forum exsisted when you were newbie age, you would be on it asking newbie questions
Regards
Tim

[PPC]

Gentleman,
                 As you can probably see from my number of posts to date on these forums - I can be considered a forum 'newbie'.

Even though i can see the overall point concerning, what i would call, 'lazy posts'. I would suggest that it is a relatively small number of such individuals 'leeching' information in this fashion.

I, like many of my industry collegues, have made my fair share of financial and business errors in the past. However, i do not suppose for 1 second that we all wouldn't have preferred the chance to avoid them if a forum like this was around at the time.

Nevertheless, in my short time on these forums i have read a vast proportion of posts on many interesting topics. It is a credit to those like Fox, Mr Ruggles and Mr Hanson (none of which i know personally)and a great many others i see regularly offer their experience to other less established indivduals. Without such contributions it is unlikely this forum would function at all.

I can see that from some of the posts on this topic that the general consensus leans more towards the unbridled 'leeching' of ideas, equipment function or procedures.However, i see this a little differently- perhaps the best reason of all to share such information willingly is that these frequent conversations can build strong business correspondences and possible collaboration in the future. I for one, am pleased to see that the site is mostly proliferated by business professionals, and people that aspire to be successful in our field.

It is clear to me that such sites and forums that contain a wealth of information as this benefit us all (agreed some more than others), and it is reasonable to assume that as our industry goes through inevitable improved changes - we all at some point or another will be glad of a place to overcome any business issues or hudles we may encounter without 'learning the hard -EXPENSIVE' way.

Cheer up Fox it's not all 1 way traffic

Respectfully

Gary Hennell

Pinnacle Professional Cleaning Ltd

[Timmy Boy]

Nice one Gary, that is what I was trying to say but I realised early on in my origional posting that I was slowly disappearing up my own preverbial!!
Regards

Tim

[Fox]

Hi guys

I hear what you are saying but with respect - do we really help by answering such basic questions that are sometimes posted.  Yes I am sure we would all rather avoid making 'expensive' mistakes, however I do believe there are mistakes that people 'need' to make in order to learn.

Perhaps it's the type of industry that we are in that attracts people with no prior knowledge of business - after all - anyone can clean - can't they?  

My real gripe is putting time and effort into helping someone only to find it is not only the question they posted they know nothing or little about but running a business as a whole.  Yes we all had to start somewhere and a forum for me in the beginning would have been a useful tool, but I am certain I would not have used it as some do.

At the end of the day it is the individuals choice whether to answer a question or not but it really exasperates me to see some of the posts especially when the poster has the bare faced cheek to come back and moan that no one will help!

Example - how would you view someone who came up to you at a parents evening at school and said ' I wonder if you can help?  I know I have 4 children but could you explain where I'm going wrong, how did I get them?' !

Fox
PS:  Oh yeah DP -

Fox - "Mental Health" that explains a lot  

your comment has been noted       lol

[PPC]

Fox,
      I realise that we may have different perspectives but this comment here:

[Perhaps it's the type of industry that we are in that attracts people with no prior knowledge of business - after all - anyone can clean - can't they?]

Makes you sound incredibly aloof and condescending towards cleaners in general.

Perhaps you are angry at ppl that do not have business accumen, but that does not mean that our 'type of industry' has any more than another!

What about rogue traders - you must have seen the sheer number of builders, carpenters, plumbers, electricians that pretend to be qualified fitters. I would suggest that there are more 'iffy' opertors in the construction industry and its associated trades than in any other - including w/cleaning. None of them appear to have any form of business accumen and i doubt such types would even introduce themselves to forums for improving their service or knowledge.

Regretfully i disagree with your whole arguement and find its content a little small minded.

'Anyone can clean'  -  To use an analogy as u have:

We can all kick a ball but how many of us get paid £100,000 a week to do it?

Just because you can do a job/service doesnt make you any damn good at it does it?

I realise that you have made some 293 posts while i have not. Consequently, i conceed that you are probably speaking from your experience where as i cannot draw on that at this point.

Nevertheless, I am a ppl person and find those that ask questions will succeed, where as those that are to stubborn or proud to ask will not.

They will make all the mistakes - lose the contacts and the money but feel incredibly pleased they 'learned' during the process.

I doubt many millionaires would share your sentiments!!

Gary Hennell

Pinnacle Professional Cleaning Ltd

[Musicman]

Gary, when Fox said "anyone can clean - can't they?", she was being ironic.

[Len Gribble]

Gary

What’s PPL?

Quantify this and reply to this thread and this person a business person/cleaner? Nothing has been changed cut and pasted.

Just been asked to do a builders clean on 20 + new houses.  Never ventured into this area before as we've previously just concentrated on carpets, upholstery, windows and some small scale office cleaning.

I'm not going to turn it down, but I'm curious as to what's normally expected and what prices do people charge?   As far as I can gather they are all 3 or 4 bedroom detatched properties.

Also any specialist gear thats required.

Prompt replies would be appreciated as I'm off to price the job on Monday, I don't want to scare them off, or worse still, leave myself working all week for nothing.

Cheers

I think this is what Fox means could be wrong don’t think so!

By the way am no longer in commercial cleaning, you don’t wont to know my views on quality of staff = no supervision = customer wont pay for it.

Len

[PPC]

Lo Len,
            PPL - wait for it    = People  LOL.

Lazy typing, i was tryin to save energy  

And i have read that post and i did grin in thought of Fox after seeing it.

So much for us newbies using the search button.

Anyhow, i wanted to make the point that not all newcomers should be branded identically. Some of us are more genuine in our intentions than others.

As for helping this guy Len:

What he is asking is unlikely to provoke a response from anyone. Not only is he a one man band, he has no equipment, probably no CIS certificate and whilst i believe he does genuinely want the contract, it is impossible to apply a quotation when he hasn't even visited the site to be sure of his obligations or H&S requirements.

It's more of a post in hope than need!!

Like i said some do 'leech' others ask specific questions to genuine problems or hurdles. There is a difference.

Like u guys i have answered posts on other forums when the questions have been specific and relevant.

However if this poor soul is to be used as a yardstick for the type of questions Fox refers too. Me answering it does not detract from my arguement that there is nothing wrong with asking questions.

Just be specific in what you ask if you expect a helpful response.

Gary Hennell

Pinnacle Professional Cleaning Ltd

[Fox]

PPL - psychological pettifogging lunatic - maybe  

Gary - Can't wait to see your replies to all the questions which come from our future millionaires!

[PPC]

And i hope the first is you madam  

[Len Gribble]

Gary

I agree.

Fox

You mean to tell some on this forum haven’t reached £100k a year = millionaires as defined by the banks.

Len