[scrimit2]

with the title who will survive i thought it was football for a moment , well i hope westham survive

Keep on dreaming Marc, and look forward to the championship and going to all the wonderfull grounds of the clubs in it 

hope the hammers survive, as long as they lose on the last game of the season

[Peter Fogwill]

its not rocket science pumping pure water from tank in your van.

Do you need to be a manufacturer for that ?

I tell you what cutting hair and building a car are a different ball game altogether.

aint that the truth

i was determined to stay off this topic, but i cannot

let look at it

Tank with RO / DI connected to it ( secured in the van )
Pump ( shurflow or Flojet )
some hose
a pole
a brush head ( fitted with jets )

anything i missed, or have i passed the NASA test

its seems only a few makers are "moving the goal posts" i will include ionics in that aswell as Peter F and Gardiner

oinics for the newer stuff they brong out, the Pro 10
Peter F is allways coming up with new idea's
Gardiner seem to be trying to do things with poles

any1 i have forgeotten, please post away

Matt the point I was trying to get across is this.  Take the pump for instance how do you know that it is a Sureflo or a Flowjet pump you need, and which particular one because there is quite a few different models of each?  Because you have seen them on systems that originally came from water fed pole suppliers.

There must be a demand for systems or all these new suppliers wouldn't be popping up all over the place, but these are the people who can give us new products, as some may come up with something different now and again.  Granted people who want to only clean windows will come up with some things new as well like Gaz with the brush, but he has become a supplier as well.  Jeff has probably added more than anyone else, and I have been at him a few times to supply systems to others, but for some reason or another he dosn't want to.

Another advantage in buying a ready to go system is you only have one place to phone if anything goes wrong or you need a spare part.  And if there is a proper profit margin built into the pricing of a system then this allows you to send out replacement faulty parts before the customer has sent back the faulty part for inspection.  This keeps the customer working when he could be sitting at home waiting for his part to be repaired or replaced.  


Back to the original question of the thread.
The industry will not be able to sustain the high amount of suppliers we have of water fed pole equipment as prices continue to fall, and the high demand diminishes, and only the ones that are good at what they do will be left.

Peter

[matt]

its not rocket science pumping pure water from tank in your van.

Do you need to be a manufacturer for that ?

I tell you what cutting hair and building a car are a different ball game altogether.

aint that the truth

i was determined to stay off this topic, but i cannot

let look at it

Tank with RO / DI connected to it ( secured in the van )
Pump ( shurflow or Flojet )
some hose
a pole
a brush head ( fitted with jets )

anything i missed, or have i passed the NASA test

its seems only a few makers are "moving the goal posts" i will include ionics in that aswell as Peter F and Gardiner

oinics for the newer stuff they brong out, the Pro 10
Peter F is allways coming up with new idea's
Gardiner seem to be trying to do things with poles

any1 i have forgeotten, please post away

Matt the point I was trying to get across is this.  Take the pump for instance how do you know that it is a Sureflo or a Flowjet pump you need, and which particular one because there is quite a few different models of each?  Because you have seen them on systems that originally came from water fed pole suppliers.

There must be a demand for systems or all these new suppliers wouldn't be popping up all over the place, but these are the people who can give us new products, as some may come up with something different now and again.  Granted people who want to only clean windows will come up with some things new as well like Gaz with the brush, but he has become a supplier as well.  Jeff has probably added more than anyone else, and I have been at him a few times to supply systems to others, but for some reason or another he dosn't want to.

Another advantage in buying a ready to go system is you only have one place to phone if anything goes wrong or you need a spare part.  And if there is a proper profit margin built into the pricing of a system then this allows you to send out replacement faulty parts before the customer has sent back the faulty part for inspection.  This keeps the customer working when he could be sitting at home waiting for his part to be repaired or replaced. 


Back to the original question of the thread.
The industry will not be able to sustain the high amount of suppliers we have of water fed pole equipment as prices continue to fall, and the high demand diminishes, and only the ones that are good at what they do will be left.

Peter

i get what you mean Peter

to the question on how do we know what pump to get, we ask the guru ( aka Jeff B ) he is the WFP oracle

seriously though, and ive built systems for others, its easy enough to build a basic system now, all the parts are available off the shelf

good luck to the people who "try something new" yourself inc, ive seen and spoken to some1 with your autobrush, its a cracking bit of kit

[DASERVICES]

The problem is a lot of suppliers are not aware of actual cost of production, shipment etc.. There is no one as yet ruthless enough to tackle the manufacturers to bring prices down. There are suppliers who are fixing prices and other suppliers cannot compete because of this.  Someone will soon come on the scene who has all this knowledge then you will see other suppliers struggle.

Doug

[JM123]

alex - I really didn't understand your last post? 

Are you saying that holding stock doesn't cost anything?

Surely you like the rest of us have to pay your own suppliers or have I missed something?

[Alex Gardiner]

Anyone that does not have to finance holding stock and have even the smallest product developed will not have a clue to the real expense involved, until they actually try it themselves! 

JM123, The point of the above sentence was that anyone that does not hold stock, etc, does not have a clue as to the real expense involved.  You and I both know that to hold a fairly basic inventory of stock can easily tie up £50,000.

[Davew]

Going back to the origional question I think the likes of your company Alex, stand a very good chance of surviving. Provided you can offer a good service, quick turnaround, good aftersales service, and a very extensive website it's what customers want. The rest is down to pricing, you pay your money and take your choice I think the majority of users on this site use this forum  because we don't have the wealth to go with the big companies or the knowledge to go fully diy.

[DASERVICES]

Alex, JM123 you could run a company without holding the stock. There are ways and means, the only problem you will have is customer service will not be the same. Hence the advanatage of stocking items.

The biggest problem we as window cleaners have if someone starts to market this at a reasonable price to householders. when the price drops to that level then we should be concerned.

In the world of business I atke my hat off to Bill Gates, he has driven suppliers to the ground and now controls everything. Your proof of licence label and software package cost around £0.20 to manufacture. So you can see from that where the profit is going, there is profit then there is greed.

Doug

[JohnL]

£0.20 to manufacture

but millions to develope!

[matt]

The biggest problem we as window cleaners have if someone starts to market this at a reasonable price to householders. when the price drops to that level then we should be concerned.



Doug

thats a good point , and something i have been aware of for sometime ( even though most say i am crazy ) when the big boys have sold all they have, and are not selling anymore, then who will they target, the commercail building owner / home owner