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macmac

Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #80 on: April 18, 2007, 10:51:51 pm »
a couple of years ??? you just told him 6 months :-\


tony

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #81 on: April 18, 2007, 10:57:34 pm »
LOCATION,LOCATION,LOCATION,i`m off to eat some of them sour grapes.

macmac

Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #82 on: April 18, 2007, 11:21:37 pm »
no sour grapes here mate, i have a very good business in a very wealthy area. top clientel, all my work is very well priced, i earn very good money for minimum hours etc. I have absolutley no probs, but, i still think squeeky has been miss-led & been given ill-conceived information, blown up/exagerated expectations throughout his wfp venture. egged on by the (un-realistic) "you dont need ladders anymore brigade". he will learn (unfortunatley) the hard way. ::)

tony

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #83 on: April 18, 2007, 11:38:56 pm »
So if it's not so great then why do you do it Macmac?

Seems to me 80-90% of people who changed have increased their earnings.
I can see already I will, after just one week.

I reckon anyone who isn't doing better isn't taking advantage of it..

Ask Ian Giles.
He's got offices that took over 3 hours, now doing them in less than 1hr 30mins.
Ok, I haven't got big commercial jobs, but at least I'm now in the market to get them.
Surely that's the point, looking for potential? ???

I got slated before, and now I'm still not doing the right thing apparently. ::)
After all those years of not wishing to expand, I want to get bigger and better.
I suppose someone's going to tell me that's the wrong attitude.

Pat Purcell

  • Posts: 568
Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #84 on: April 19, 2007, 12:16:54 am »
Squeaky, If your latest posts are anything to go by then switching to WFP has not only changed your work method ,its changed your whole outlook
You are now looking at the bigger picture and can see good things down the road and are willing to put in the time and hard work to get there
Whether it was the change to wfp or something else that did that is your business.
Best of luck with the new venture
  And that sprinter is my kind of van how much do they sell for
Boston USA    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   Cork Ireland

macmac

Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #85 on: April 19, 2007, 12:18:42 am »
I'm realistic rog, i trad & wfp most days. some jobs are easier & quicker to trad. I would never drop work just cos it dont wfp, some of my best accounts are trad only. I'm not saying you've done the wrong thing, just i think you could have been given better advise. you now have no choice but to expand, you've purchased a brand new van which is bigger than you need, you HAVE to earn quite a bit more money & you have virtually no wfp experience under your belt. On top of which, according to yourself, you are broke! for all you know half your customers may not take to wfp, and if you take the advise of increasing your prices now, as its the perfect oppertunity, just remember that doing so also gives any customer not happy with wfp, or,( no disrespect), your first attempts at it the perfect oppertunity to drop you!
I just think people are too quick to assume that wfp= easy money & expanding is a piece of cake. While i rant, i also wouldn't have advised you to but a modular pole too. To me you are running before you can walk.
No disrespect to you rog, or any other poster, like i say, i'm realistic, it doesn't matter to me if you go bankrupt next week, i shal lose no sleep, i dont know you, but i always try to give the best, most honest advise i can based on my own experience & only with the poster's best interest in mind. if that means disagreeing with the click, then so be it. :o
You can expand & you can also increase your earnings, just not at the rate at which you have been led to beleive IMO.

tony

macmac

Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #86 on: April 19, 2007, 12:34:42 am »
just to add to that, i'm not trying to be negative on a purpose or anything, & of-course i wish you the best of luck, but i feel that for your sake its important to see the other side of the coin, as i can only see that you've only been shown the one side. ;)

tony

Paul Coleman

Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #87 on: April 19, 2007, 07:06:25 am »
So if it's not so great then why do you do it Macmac?

Seems to me 80-90% of people who changed have increased their earnings.
I can see already I will, after just one week.

I reckon anyone who isn't doing better isn't taking advantage of it..

Ask Ian Giles.
He's got offices that took over 3 hours, now doing them in less than 1hr 30mins.
Ok, I haven't got big commercial jobs, but at least I'm now in the market to get them.
Surely that's the point, looking for potential? ???

I got slated before, and now I'm still not doing the right thing apparently. ::)
After all those years of not wishing to expand, I want to get bigger and better.
I suppose someone's going to tell me that's the wrong attitude.


If you know you can cope with being in the financial doldrums for a few months - possibly even a year - I think you have done the right thing Rog.  Although my overall income isn't much higher than with trad, I could make it so with a blitz of canvassing.  The work that was a reasonably full 6 week cycle for me, I now get around in 4 - maybe 4 and a bit.  That leaves me room for taking on a fair bit of work.  When I add the droppable work to that, perhaps I could get around it in three weeks.
If truth be told, maybe 60% of my work is droppable but I don't want the income dip while I would be replacing it.
Although Tony is right to sound a note of caution, I wonder if he's being over cautious.  I think it needs to be taken into account that you have Ian and Tosh around which seems like a great bit of support to me.  Also, I think you said that your wife works so maybe there is a small financial cushion there?
Some jobs I find are no quicker than trad but those are few and far between.  Most are a fair bit quicker.  On some jobs, I've actually managed to halve the time - though these are the bigger places where there is good access.
Also in your favour is that you have no more big oulays now for quite a while.  You can get your water from Ian at low cost and I'm sure Tosh will chip in.  This means you have no need to invest in a water production setup until you are ready to.
I reckon you'll make it OK but you will probably need to canvass for a while to fill those gaps in your workload that will appear.

Terry_Burrows

  • Posts: 1643
Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #88 on: April 19, 2007, 09:07:54 am »
I think people do run away with the idea,if you fink wfp you ern loads,er you have to get the work first,there is no way just because you have a window sweeper its getting you work,I know of blue chip people that do not want them ::) its a gamble there are some people would love to see ladders banned,
cant see it in my life time :-\

they are a lot of money think wisely :-\ ::)
WWW.FASTESTWINDOWCLEANER.CO.UK
GUINNESS WORLD RECORD HOLDER
BURNING RUBBER FASTER!
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF MASTER WINDOW CLEANERS.

darren72

  • Posts: 155
Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #89 on: April 19, 2007, 09:41:14 am »
I bought a trolly system about 6 weeks ago for half of my run its great especially commercial stuff.Ive got a housing scheme with 170 houses there only one road in and one road out so you cant yous a van mount thats why i bought a trolly system.After the first clean the windows came up great the only problem is iam a lot quicker with my ladders becuase all the gardens have got fences gates ect dosent matter how quick you clean the windows its the access thats the problem so thats me back up the ladder.I think when buying wfp you need to have the right work for it and theres no chance iam gonna drop 170 houses just because i cant wfp them.

macmac

Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #90 on: April 19, 2007, 12:44:55 pm »
wise comments guys, i might sound over cautious as shiner fairley points out but i feel this is nessesary as a guys livleyhood is at stake here, a guy who (by his own admittence) is up to the hilt in debt already. So i feel, for his sake, he will be better prepared for his wfp venture being totally aware of the many negatives of wfp instead of just being bombarded with un-realistic, rose-tinted views of his immediate future.
And yes, ofcourse, there are many possitives, but like i said he will be better prepared for his immediate future knowing both sides of the coin. If me pointing these out & maybe looking negative puts me in a bad light, i'm sorry.

tony

Terry_Burrows

  • Posts: 1643
Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #91 on: April 19, 2007, 03:23:18 pm »
the fact is. its not all rosey just because you might have just got yourself an all singing danceing wfp :-\ its the work that counts,I have had many years of good and very bad times, some people can go out and it just falls for them,others
they struggle,I myself fell into the struggle zone,its called bad luck :-\

but it will be very interesting to see sqeeks get on in the next 6months,
I wish you very well,and hope its does make this major change that some suppliers say it does :-\
WWW.FASTESTWINDOWCLEANER.CO.UK
GUINNESS WORLD RECORD HOLDER
BURNING RUBBER FASTER!
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF MASTER WINDOW CLEANERS.

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #92 on: April 19, 2007, 04:10:40 pm »
Rog has now made the change, and it is not just in his method of work either, his outlook has also changed.
He has now become more ambitious.
For a few months he is going to be earning not much more than before, but he is also going to be less tired at the end of the day, and as the weeks pass he will pick up more work.
Even without having his new van signed (he won't be able to afford it for a while) he is going to stand out and that alone will draw in more work.

He is an experienced trad window cleaner, he understands how to price things up, even if he only prices things up as he did before he is going to make more money, in particular on georgian and leaded work, suddenly these are no longer the kind of jobs you dread, or avoid pricing up.
Certain accounts he will be able to increase straight away, houses with conservatories for instance - he'll be able to do those impossible to clean windows over the top, and he can also offer to clean ALL of the conservatory (not the roof though) wash the UPVC down from the gutters to the sill.
This one is a real clincher, Rog has shown me a pic of a before and after clean he did on a conservatory, and he can now see for himself the staggering difference in finish.
There is hardly a day goes by where I don't get enquiries for work now, the same thing will slowly but surely begin to happen for Roger.

I'll agree with macmac that the van he is getting is larger than he needs for his CURRENT setup, but it is not much more expensive than a smaller van would be, and it gives him the capacity to 'Go Large' ;)
He can't see it at the moment, but at some point he will want to increase the size of his tank for instance...

And don't forget, a big reason Rog has come over to the 'dark side' is because working trad has screwed up his shoulder.

I know Tony isn't a believer in using the superlite for the run of the mill work, but I have been using nothing else for the last two months and find it fantastic, Rog also needs to work as 'light' as he can due to his shoulder (and his back too), he hasn't got the full size superlite remember, and that was reflected in the cost.


As the Shiner has pointed out, he also has myself and Tosh to fall back on for hands on help or advice, and of course this forum for more general help.

As for his customers cancelling in droves..not likely, quite possibly he will lose a couple here and there, but he will also pick up more than he loses, and that's without any canvassing at all.

Squeaks mentioned above about an office where I now clean it in an hour and a half as against 3 hours (actually it was Rog that cleaned it in 3 hours, not me, on this particular one he was a good hour quicker than me, and most would take 5 hours to clean it too)
Well, after cleaning it WFP for the last 3 years, this week I found another little wrinkle or two that has let me shave a good ten minutes off the time taken.
To be honest, this is more because of the superlite, but I'm still kicking myself for the fact it's taken 3 years for it to dawn on me that I could change things slightly and make life even easier for myself.....actually, the superlite has also shaved off time purely becuase it is lighter and more rigid, thereby allowing me to work continuously without the need to rest.

As the saying goes, 'there is more than one way to skin a cat'

To use trendy speak, you have to 'think outside the box' Aproaching work as you would with a ladder isn't the way to do it.
Darren72 (why 72 by the way?) mentions about access problems.
He has a trolley system, but access makes it slower than trad, totally understandable too, kinda depends on the trolley system, but having a hose reel at the front with...say...30 or 40 metres of microbore fitted, might possibly have given him the scope to have done this work more efficiently with WFP.

A job I did today for instance, normally over an hours work, but I worked it differently today and saved myself over 20 minutes, been doing this one for over a year now too.
You have to keep thinking and being prepared to change what you do, sometimes the impossible becomes possible with only the smallest of changes...

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

JM123

  • Posts: 2095
Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #93 on: April 19, 2007, 04:21:10 pm »
applauds squeeky for showing true grit, determination and above all - belief

seriously, look at it this way.

Van - £50 a week extra
System - £2000 repayable over 1 year approx = £40 a week

So squeeky has to earn an additional £90 a week to cover his additional expenses.

I reckon if Roger canvasses every night Mon-Fri for 2 weeks he'll have picked up at least £40 a night = £400 over 2 weeks, meaning his additional expenses are covered.

Don't forget that he'll do this work inside 2 days, paying his van and system costs for the entire month.

Squeeks, you're doing it right mate - keep at it.
Live life in the fast lane.......if you break down you'll freewheel further

Ballymena N.I

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #94 on: April 19, 2007, 04:49:11 pm »
System was £800, and it's a loan from my parents at a low payback rate, so my addtional expenses are less than that.

The van works out at £12 a day actually, so what's that? A house extra?
Hardly a problem, as I should be doing at least 3 or more extra a day anyway...

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #95 on: April 19, 2007, 04:53:30 pm »
Squeaky don`t worry about the size of the van you have,in a while you`ll be glad you got one that size as theres more space to actually lay poles in rather than put them on the roof.From now on when you take work on just make sure it suits the pole unless of course it`s top money.Good luck you won`t need it.

JM123

  • Posts: 2095
Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #96 on: April 19, 2007, 04:55:50 pm »
squeeks, when you get up to speed with the pole you should be able to do an extra £50 a day as a minimuminumunimun (haet speleng)

Live life in the fast lane.......if you break down you'll freewheel further

Ballymena N.I

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25150
Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #97 on: April 19, 2007, 05:26:23 pm »
You've done the right thing Squeaky - I did it it slowly and steadily - trolley - then tank then backpack then microbore then van then supalight and I'm doing fine.

But looking back - going for a van and supalight and microbore a year ago would have been even better.

Hot water next! Eh?
It's a game of three halves!

Paul Coleman

Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #98 on: April 19, 2007, 06:36:16 pm »
wise comments guys, i might sound over cautious as shiner fairley points out but i feel this is nessesary as a guys livleyhood is at stake here, a guy who (by his own admittence) is up to the hilt in debt already. So i feel, for his sake, he will be better prepared for his wfp venture being totally aware of the many negatives of wfp instead of just being bombarded with un-realistic, rose-tinted views of his immediate future.
And yes, ofcourse, there are many possitives, but like i said he will be better prepared for his immediate future knowing both sides of the coin. If me pointing these out & maybe looking negative puts me in a bad light, i'm sorry.

tony

No problem Tony.  It's good to show all aspects of WFP.  I have made it very clear myself on other threads that WFP was a nightmare for me in the first few weeks - perhaps several months.  I have started out with WFP up to my eyeballs in debt (the debt was there before I bought WFP).  I was in the situation of "if I do what I've always done, I'll get what I've always got".  I had to change something - and fast.  So I went WFP, cut my personal expenditure where possible, and took a gamble if I'm honest about it.  It's a bit early to say if that gamble will pay off but unless some bad unforeseen stuff happens, I reckon it'll be OK.  From what Rog has written on here, it looks like his finances are in far better shape than mine.
I genuinely appreciate you sounding notes of caution.  I think me and Squeaky are both gonna make it.

matt

Re: New van coming soon!
« Reply #99 on: April 19, 2007, 09:13:30 pm »
Ive stayed off this thread, as i know the answer from some will be

"what do you know, your just a part-timer 3 day a week man, who makes his own system and has no drive "

Well just to counter the above, My daughter starts school full time in sept ( she is in pre school at the mo ), thus i can work 5 days a week, My plan is to work 4 days and have a day for the rain, in the last few weeks ( since my disney holiday in feb ) ive been thinking on where my biz is going and planning to expand in sept, ive picked up some nice little accounts just by putting a "biz pack" though doors of selected houses

personally i feel Rog has belived the hype about the WFP system and van, the old "think big, be big" crap that often gets spouted, yes sure, we know we can earn a little more doing WFP, but you need the work to start with, Im not sure a van brings in extra work, i just dont see it, if some1 see's you cleaning windows, they dont look for the motor your in, or do they ?? ? ?? i know every1 who i work for couldnt give a rats arse what i drive, they just want clean windows

good luck rog, you will make the extra for your van from WFP, you will make the taxman payments easier from WFP, when they have bee paid off, you will have a extra few bob in your pocket,

i dont know if you will be making the 600 quid a day that some say they earn every day, but if you do, put a bit aside for the taxman eh :)