[GMG]

hi could some one tell me would i have to put the water
from my area which has a reading of 150 tds would i
have to put it thru a ro system or could i get away with
putting it just thru the di system ,many thanks

[Philip Hanson]

Hello GMG,

DI systems are good for soft water areas.  Generally speaking a reading of 0-100 tds is considered soft, 100-200 moderately hard, and above 200 Hard.  A DI system will purify water of any hardness, the problem is that if you use water which is hard, it becomes more economical in the long run to use RO.

However, 150 is still not too bad, so personally I think you could get away with a DI only system.

With that reading, you could expect to make about 3,300 litres of pure water from one 25 Litre bag of resin.

If you say that resin costs around £80 per bag, then the cost of producing pure water would be 2.5pence per litre.

And remember, if you get a DI system and find that you are going through too much resin and its costing a fortune, you can always go back to your supplier and ask them to install an RO membrane.

DI has several other advantages too, such as:
Faster fill times.  Most DI systems will fill a 1000 litre tank in about 30 minutes.  RO would take about 5 hours.

Simpler System and therefore less maintenence is required.

Cheaper to purchase though running costs may be higher.

Use less water An RO unit will use about 3 litres of tap water for every 1 litre of pure water produced.  With DI systems there is no waste, 1 litre of tap water will give 1 litre of pure water.  This is an issue if you are on a water meter.

Hope thats of some help

-Philip

PS what system were you looking at?

[GMG]

hi philip, thanks for the info much appreciated. I,ve been reading most of the posts to give me some idea where to go to start in wfp, I just got my tds meter to give me the readings in my area i was told by the water board it was soft but the meter has told me different.  

I thought this would tell me what set up to get i was thinking about building my own set up but because i have not used one before maybe this may not be a good idea, i,ve read about people going out with there new set up and having a bad day with spotting etc which is putting me off at the moment.  

i know alot is down to practice if there is some one who could give me a confidence boost and some advice on what to get would be much appreciated

[poleman]

Hi GMG

I dont mind helping, best way to start is how much money do you have to get a WFP system, and then ask for some prices from the WFP Suppliers, if you go down the road of DIY then you will have to spend some time of the fine details of how it all work, which is fine as most on here are happy to help, if you get a full ready to work system then the Supplier is there for you so to speak.

As for  bad days with our WFP System, yes we do get them ITS A NEW WAY OF CLEANING WINDOWS so to speak and when i first started out with my system at one point thought have I done the right thing BUT yes I have, I now work from the saftey of the ground, I earn more money now and I fill that it was the best business move I have every made, so if you are thinking of doing it please go into it with open eyes, there are WFP courses that you can go on which will help.

Andy        

[Philip Hanson]

I thought this would tell me what set up to get i was thinking about building my own set up but because i have not used one before maybe this may not be a good idea, i,ve read about people going out with there new set up and having a bad day with spotting etc which is putting me off at the moment.

Everyone gets some spotting when they first start with WFP, its just something you have to prepare your customers for.  It causes us to panic unnecessarily sometimes, because most customers are just pleased that you have gone to the trouble to invest in new equipment.

Building your own set up is one way to go about it, indeed that is what I did.   But I would not recommend it.  It took a very long time to perfect, and if I'm honest was no cheaper in the long run than buying a proper system.  Even more frustrating is that I'm now finding that there are limitations that cant be overcome, so I'm busily saving for a proper system now, which I wish I did from the start!

An important point to remember is that working at height will very soon be subject to greater restrictions as the European Work at Height Directive becomes law in this country.  Some people will tell you that this won't "ban ladders", but in my opinion the thrust of the document is very clear.  If a job can be done without working at height then it should be, and it specifically mentions using pole systems for window cleaning rather than ladders.

But anyway, I digress.  My advice is to get some manufacturers to come to you and give you a demonstration.  This is completely free, and puts you under no obligation.  Its useful for them to come and demo on a larger building that you have a contract for.  (make sure you tell the building owner whats happening.  They will be overjoyed that you are looking into a safer system, as this reduces their risk of liability so usually they co-operate no problem)  If you dont have such a contract, they will come and do a house instead, even your own house.

WFP systems are expensive compared to the cost of conventional equipment.  Therefore make sure you buy from a reputable supplier.  Look carefully at the reputation of a company, as this will give an indication of how you as a customer will eventually be treated.

Below are some good suppliers I know of:
(wouldn't all fit on to one post)

-Philip

[replacement]

I would go with RO unit if you have the money. Say you use 3333 litres per week this is going to cost you £80 per week.

Now a RO unit will cost more to setup with but you would only need to change the cartridges on 3 monthly cycles, this costs me £87. I usally get thorugh a Resin Cartridge every other month at a cost of £55.

So buy doing some simple maths you would spend £4,160 per year running a DI unit or Just £678 on a RO unit. These costs are based on your water 150 ppm.

Hope that helps.

Justin

Ps I tested my water ratio yesterday and it read 200 ml waste water too 600ml of pure water so under a 1:1 ratio, some RO units do waste on a ratio of 3:1 so 3 litres of waste water to 1 litre of pure water. You can also clean windows with a tds reading of 035, howevery i have only gone to 009.

[Philip Hanson]

Here are some good suppliers I know of:

Ionic Systems Ltd
http://www.ionicsystems.com
The WFP industry leader.  They manufacture the "reach & wash" system.  They also are the only company to have conducted crash-tests on their systems.  They have a specially designed set of poles known as the "ergo-lite" range, and once you've used one you wont want anything else.  Be warned though, if you want the best, you have to pay for it, the systems are top quality and not cheap.  They do finance plans however.  Ionic Systems sponsor The British Window Cleaning Academy so good on them.

Contact: Reuben Reynolds

Omnipole
http://www.omnipole.com
Omnipole have an excellent trolley system known as the "omnitrolley"  They use aluminium poles (rather than fibre-glass or carbon fibre) which have a myriad of attachments for any cleaning job you could imagine!  (Including gutters).  I have never used one of their systems, but from what I hear their equipment is well built and good quality.  Justin Ruggles uses an omnipole system, and is very happy with it.

Contact : Glyn Howard

Brodex
http://www.brodexbms.co.uk
Brodex's range of systems are called the High-Flow, Eco-flow and 3G.  Their systems are encased in stainless steel, making them quite distinctive.  Unfortunately they had their wrists slapped recently by the Advertising Standards Commission for making false claims in their advertising.  For me this tarnished their reputation a little, but who knows maybe the experience will help them get back on track.

Contact : Sean Rimmer

Pure2o
http://www.pure2o.co.uk
A wiltshire based company that uses the same crash-tested chassis as Ionic Systems.  I personally have had dealings with pure2o and would recommend them to anyone.  They do a good range of systems, from "DIY" parts to complete systems.  They also promise to beat any like-for-like quote, which is nice.

Contact : Carl Stacey

Aqua-Tec
http://www.window-tools.com
Peter Fogwill who runs this business is famed for his helpfulness and good advice.  His systems range from a 50 Litre trolley system to a full Van mounted system.  Also there is a trailer system which I particularly like the look of.  Many people have written reviews on his products, have a look at them.

Contact : Peter Fogwill

Skypole
http://www.skypole.com
A newcommer to the WFP market, Skypole's website boasts "one of the biggest ranges of pure water cleaning systems available in the world".  If I were them I'd get that off there double-quick before they are ordered to by the Advertising Standards Commission.  Not much is known about their systems as they are so new.

Contact : Stuart Kimish

Most of these suppliers will be at the WINDEX exhibition in October.  This would be an ideal opportunity for you to see a broad range of systems in one place.  Also, I would recommend going to The British Window Cleaning Academy's water-fed-pole course.  Its excellent!

-Philip

[GMG]

hi guys thanks very much  for all the responce and  advice
it just goes to show theres alot of people on this site that are willing to help a wfp (when i get one) novice like me the right road to take ,i,m not in the postion to
pay big money at the moment i,ve got 1200 pounds
to spend not alot i know but if i can get one to start me off i can upgrade from there if all works out for me (which i think it will)  i,m looking at getting a trolley system to see how it goes was thinking about a van system but after much thought opted for a trolley i,ve been hoping to drop on a second hand one off some one who maybe them selfs upgrading i,m going to keep looking out for one there was a set up which finished today on ebay but it was a van set up so i left
that one even though it was in my price range many thanks to you all, martin

[WavieDavie]

Hi GMG,

Tell us abit more about you - i.e., fill in your profile and signature - and I'll pass on some information which might help!

Visit http://www.window-tools.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl which is a bulletin board similar to this one (quite a few of the same posters too!) run by an ex-windowcleaner who now manufactures trolley, trailer and vanmounted wfp systems. Over there, one of the forums (fora? I must admit Latin's not my strong point!) is for second hand systems which could prove interesting for you, but I dont think anything's available right now.

However, you could ask Peter to let you know if anyone's upgrading from a trolley system and could you get in touch?

It covers "Classic", as well as WFP, window cleaning methods and should keep you occupied for some time - enjoy!

All the best.

[WavieDavie]

I'm sure I've seen a post on here saying that it's possible to buy a wfp system (or anything else, really) on a credit card and then transfer the balance to a 0% card?

Obviously a 12 month card would be better than a 6 month one for cash flow, and £1200 over one year would be £100 per month, or less than £25 per week. Work out your own multiples . . .

See http://www.stoozing.com/ for more information, but remember, it's not just a figure on a page when the statement comes in, it's a debt!

[kcc]

Hi I use one of aquetec systems Peter's which is quite good and got me in wfp it has limitations but is amazing what you can do with it, complete trolley poles and filter system for £ 1150 so within your budget. You think you water is hard mine is 683+ ppm !!but it cope well with it
www.windowtools.com I still get spotting occasionally but not sure what really causes it and wish someone would give explanation here best of luck tho

[replacement]

Rinse your brush head, this is the main course of spotting a dirty brush head. I carry a bucket of pure water and rinse it every house i clean.

Justin

Ps Rain stopped now back out i go.

[karlosdaze]

Rinse your brush head, this is the main course of spotting a dirty brush head. I carry a bucket of pure water and rinse it every house i clean.

Justin

Ps Rain stopped now back out i go.

Hey Justin,
I've been looking for some kind of container for a while for the brush head! Is yours sealable?

p.s. I thought you cleaned in the rain?