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Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2007, 09:30:24 pm »


If you charge 3 times value you'll soon get a name as a cowboy.

Rog, i'm not a cowboy as you put it, thats why i would charge 3x, they get a pucka job. Personally i cant be bothered with one offs.

If they want their windows looking great & want me to do it then they will pay, other wise they can find a cowboy who has shed loads of time on his hands to do them cheap.

Rog, your not a cowboy window cleaner, so why sell yourself cheap?  ???

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2007, 09:37:51 pm »
Never said you were a cowboy Macc, but if you (not you personally) go around ripping people off you'll get yourself a bad name in the area, and that could cost you a lot more in the long run.

There's good prices without taking the p.

pylofm

Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2007, 09:48:47 pm »
Roger...Why do you not take a leaf out of your fellow local window cleaners book  and charge what they appear to make a living a very nice living at.

You have posted about taxes, having to buy a banger, not being able to find money for this and that....You are a smart guy, why not use that potential to make some good money doing exactly what your are doing now...I know money is not everything but it does make life a little sweeter...why be the cheap charlie...I seriously doubt whether anybody is going to erect a statue of you in the Chepstow area for your charitable works to the community.

Sounds like you have a job and not a business, you sound as if your are less your own boss than you think you are (no offence meant).

Good luck and look around...they are making the money....

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2007, 09:56:33 pm »
I wish people would stop making out I'm cheap! >:(

I've hardly ever given a price without being told the last guy was cheaper.
Most of the time I get a shocked look.

I usually want £8 for a 3-bed semi that takes me 10-12 minutes.
I rarely turn over less than £25 per hour.

How is that cheap??????  ::)

If it was a fiver I could understand it.

Tosh

Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2007, 10:14:35 pm »
I rarely turn over less than £25 per hour.

Are you sure, Squeaks?

At 25 quid an hour, you should be to turn over at least 150 a day; that's six hours at 25 quid an hour.

Say you only work four days per week, that's 600 quid per week.

There's 52 weeks in a year, but lets say you take 12 of them off for holidays and bad weather; that's 40 weeks at 150 quid per day (on a four day week) = 24,000 pounds per year.

Does that sound reasonable so far?  I've only got you down as working four days per week.

So you turnover 24K and have 5K as your 'expenditure', leaving you 19K as your profit.

So:

Profit from self employed: = 19,000

minus personal allowance (4,895) = 14,105

10% of 2090 = 209
22% of 12015 = 2,643.30

National Insurance:8% of 19K = 1520.

This makes a tax bill of:  4,372.30 pounds.

That's calculated on the basis that you work for 40 weeks of the year (12 weeks off) and only four days per week.

SO HOW COME YOU ONLY HAD A 1000 POUND TAX BILL!!!! ;D


EasyClean

  • Posts: 558
Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2007, 10:16:52 pm »
I think Squeeky is aware of what he can charge his customers in the area he works compared to local competition and is happy grafting up & down ladders for the wage he feels comfortable with. So long as he's happy, that's the main thing.
My sales technique is to simply be honest, polite, professional and ask a sensible price that suits both myself and the customer. I must be asking about the right price in the areas I work because I only manage to gain 3 in 5 quotes now whereas if I was too cheap it would be more like 9 out of 10.
Losing a customer is like waiting for the next bus, another one will come along shortly!

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2007, 10:25:37 pm »
Tosh I don't work every hour of every day, and don't forget travelling between jobs.

Chris - CBWC

  • Posts: 224
Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2007, 10:33:49 pm »
Squeaky,

I'd do the same cos a one-off/first clean tends to take me at least twice as long and I want paying for my time!

On a first clean I just charge the standard rate on the promise of on going work but a one-off is exactly that a one-off and I want paying for it

Regards

Alistair


Yeah but what about the ones that agree to regular 4 or 6-weekly cleans, then when you call/turn up say, "not this time thanks" or after you've finished they say "I'll call you", that's what gets me

Chris

Tosh

Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2007, 10:37:28 pm »
Tosh I don't work every hour of every day, and don't forget travelling between jobs.

Squeaks,

I worked out your income on a SIX HOUR working day; not including travelling time.

Just say you work an average of 8 hours per day, but only clean windows for six of them; giving you two hours for traveling/setting up time.

And then I only calculated it on a four day working week!

Remember, mate; there's 24 hours in any given day and I've not said anything about 'working every hour of every day'; only a reasonable amount of them.

Get with the programme, Squeaks.


Alistair@AWC

  • Posts: 880
Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2007, 11:37:33 pm »
Hi Chris,

Yeah I know what you mean about the ones that take you on then cancel after the first clean, but thankfully its only happened twice still it really pes me off and im left fuming for about a week.

The last time was just before Haloween and I was giving serious thought to egging her house and it'd just get put down to 'trick or treaters' but I clean the next 2 houses in her street and reasoned it'll probably be bad for business - you just gonna take it on the chin and be thankful for the 100's of good customers  ;D

Alistair

DaveWilkinson

  • Posts: 130
Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2007, 12:49:34 am »
I dont see the problem with charging high, as a plumber in my last life we charged TWICE the rate of most other plumbers in the area, we never claimed to be cheap, in fact we stated we were expensive but you get what you pay for, fast, reliable and and at a time that suited them. We told it how it was, and we were still not able to cope with the amount of  work we had comming in, and the customers were happy to pay a higher price for a better service.

As long as your customer is happy with the price and you havent told them any porkies about other wc's then its not ripping them off, its proving them with a choice.

DAve


Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2007, 06:35:09 am »
Sincerity....fake that and you've got it made ;D

I don't honestly know if my sales technique is good or not, but as a rule I get on very well indeed on a one to one basis with people.
As I talk to them I like to smile at them...I try to make my eyes mirror my smile...I like to see if I can get a smile in return, if I'm doing that I am at least empathizing with them a little (that can be a potential customer or the woman at the checkout scanning my goods).
I agree with honesty too, be straight with your potential customer, don't be hesitant of diffident (neither could ever be said of Tosh by the way ;)).

On one off cleans you do need to charge at least double, well, I say that, but half the trime I cave in at the point of telling them the price and probably do very similar to Squeaky and then mentally kick myself for not charging more!! :-\

On the subject of turnover, of course Squeaks doesn't turnover 24k per year, if he did he would have plenty of ready cash and plenty in the bank too.

It doesn't matter how often you can regularly turnover £25 per hour, or £30 per hour, Roger needs to look at his end of year figures (as do you all) divide that 52  and you have your weekly income, or business turnover I should say.
Take 5k off that total for business costs & overheads (like it or not, your vehicle IS an overhead, without it you wouldn't have a job) and that will give you your realistic income.

When it comes to tax purposes. various other things come into play to further reduce your profit, but I'm not talking about that.

For the trad window cleaner, 5k per year is about right as a business running cost.

I honestly don't know what squeaks turnover was for the last tax year and I don't expect him to tell all on an open forum, from what I can gather the tax man re-evalued him and has charged him on account for the following year also, so his tax bill isn't actually £1000 for the year he submitted, no doubt next year that forward payment will be taken into account when he does his return.

If Squeaks submitted somewhere between £15,000 and £17,000 for his turnover the tax figure he quoted sounds about right (especially if they have made him pay some on account).
Lets say he's submitted 17k, lop 5k off that and that leaves him with an income of just £12,000 per year.

No one needs to come back at me with tax equations, we leave all that for the end of the year, but if you are turning over roughly £17,000 per year, then your income is going to be in the region of £12,000

Every 3 years or so, most of us will replace our current vehicle, maybe many of you can only afford to pay out a grand or so on some old banger, but that's hardly surprising if you are only on an income of 12k per year is it?

Claiming to turn over £25 per hour is of no use whatsoever if at the end of the year it only equated to a  12 grand wage.

If you are turning over £25 per hour and only getting £12,000 per year out of that, then you are seriously screwing things up...what are you doing wrong?

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Pj

Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2007, 09:55:51 am »
A bit off topic now, but I'm sure I don't want my annual turnover debated publicly!  What I earn and what hours I choose to work are my business.  I started w/c 20 years ago, I've provided for my wife, have a modest home and raised 3 kids, I now have 4 grandchildren!
I chose windowcleaning obviously to provide for my family, but also to gain freedom, which is more important than annual turnover and profits.  It's true you need money, but you can't buy freedom to spend all this time on the internet! ;D :P

Ladders

  • Posts: 172
Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2007, 10:38:23 am »
Given that the government is introducing those new 'home packs' at 300+ a shot in June 2007, I think were going to have a glut of 'new customers' selling their houses prior to that date, wanting one-off cleans to avoid the charge.



Tosh i fairly sure this idea has been abandoned by the government.

Jeff
For every problem there is a solution

Tosh

Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2007, 03:07:31 pm »
Most of the time I get a shocked look.

I'm going to get one of those tomorrow morning.

I've been asked to quote for a large leaded house with an electric gate.  I'm doing it tomorrow (Saturday) because the owner works in London during the week.

He's an ex-army officer too (I always disliked officers) and has had a couple of window cleaners (probably trad only) refuse the job; a big leaded one.

He described his property and tentitively asked 'if I was interested'.

He's obviously desperate too, since he wants me to do them 'then and there' and every other month thereafter.

As I say, I'm going to see a shocked look tomorrow! ;D

Lizzy

  • Posts: 121
Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2007, 03:16:58 pm »

I chose windowcleaning obviously to provide for my family, but also to gain freedom, which is more important than annual turnover and profits.  It's true you need money, but you can't buy freedom to spend all this time on the internet! ;D :P

I'm with you on this one PJ.   I dont go to work purely to earn wads (though wouldnt mind earning wads doing what I do).   For me, self employment means flexibility and freedom to change things.
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.

brett walker

  • Posts: 1943
Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2007, 03:53:45 pm »
My sales technique is quite simple put a professional card through the door if they want me they can ring me but if they see me accross the road or doing their neighbours thay can ask.  Its not the best sales methord i admit but when i come face to face i am polite and courteous and always have a smile for the potential customer and try and explain a bit about my service wether it be trad or wfp this seems to go a long way with the customer.  My biggest selling point at the moment is telling customers that their frames and doors get cleanes they seem very impressed with this

Brett

Tosh

Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2007, 05:13:42 pm »
There must be some formula we could use though?  Or at least take a look at and see if we can improve our sales technique.

Tomorrow, I'm going to stick a high price to the bloke I've already mentioned; yet I want him to have a nice warm fuzzy feeling about me; rather than thinking he's gotta have me 'cos he can't get anyone else.

Okay, some might say provide a service that is top notch; commensurate with what he's paying us, but we tend to routinely do that anyway; mostly.

Sarah Sarill

  • Posts: 1537
Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2007, 05:18:31 pm »
Tosh,

If you want to use a sales formula then it is

BENEFIT - COST - BENEFIT.

Repeated several times it makes the client think they are getting good VFM  (value for Money) and they dont question your prices.

Sarah
Sarah

Tosh

Re: What's your face to face sales technique like?
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2007, 05:42:38 pm »
If you want to use a sales formula then it is

BENEFIT - COST - BENEFIT.

I recognise the 'sandwich'; when giving bad news to someone at work; you can sandwich negative behavioural traits between two good ones. 

Such as, 'Look, you're a hard worker but your time keeping is appalling.  If you're late again, you're going to have your left testicle removed.  Look, I don't like saying this to you, you work well in a team and it's just this one thing that's letting you down.

So you're just 'sandwiching' the bad news (the price) with the good news (your waffle)?