[Fox]

Wiz

Hmm - Yes - fact it works - yes fact is complex (in the respect of giving your own business away as piece meal!)

What I was demonstrating in simple terms is, it is not a simple option and not one that new starters who may be reading this should automatically opt for (not that you ever said they should).  You were simply explaining another method of employment which most starters would find confusing.  

As we say 'each to their own' I gather this type of program worked for you in a different business - do you mind if I ask - are you using it now?

If you are then maybe a more detailed post on the where and whithalls is warrented and then even the 'average' can get a stand.

Fox

[higilab-br]

Hello,
I´ve been following this discussion. I am in the business and I had my nasty experiences with staff. Staffing is a critical problem in the cleaning business worldwide (by the way, I am far away: from Brazil and in Brazil). I´ve seen that the main concern pointed in the messages was payment. I am curious about which criteria do you use most for selecting staff? What on training and qualifications? By the way, a paper presented by a Danish group in a conference here in Brazil is quite " food for thought" (http://www.ami.dk/presentations/national_psychosocial_survey_brazil.pdf).
Regards
Martins
higiene@ufrrj.br

PS: apologize for spelling mistakes... my mother tongue is Brazilian-Portuguese!

[Zach]

Wiz,

I think you should have a look at the implications of IR35 on the tax load that your clever accounting company is doing for you and your employees.
It may also be a good idea to get written confirmation from them regarding your and your employees position regarding how an Inland Revnue audit (if it was to occur) would be handled - and more importantly who would handle it and who would pay for those not inconsiderable potential costs.

IR35 deals specifically with 'veiled' employment and the criteria are very strict and yet open to serious interpretation by IR. They may well deem that the cover of a legalistic framework as offerd by your accountants are deemed a sham and then levy full taxation and NI rates as per full employee status (which tends to come as a large shock for those that suddenly find themselves liable)

Not that I'm saying that you are in this position, but I would want to find out the bottom line if I was you. Rather than just look at the current cost savings now - what about the potential risk that may have opened up.

Various such schemes are operational at present and were at their height during the heady days of contracting office workers a few years ago. Some of them pass muster and most don't - the criteria is not usually the scheme itself that ensures success, but the actual peoples situation that work in that scheme.

eg: There are also firms that offer similar offers with most of the money going offshorte and therefore deemed not taxable in the UK by use of various mechanisms etc. Problem is that once that money is brought back onshore it is then deemed as part of your taxable liabilities (depending on overall earnings etc). However, the companies that offer those services only run with you to that point. Anything further and your on your own. In other words, Inland Revenue and the person in their own right - Scary innit?

Not pouring cold water here for you, merely suggesting that you get the backend of this thing you are in sussed out properly.
If they assure you that its all 100% in terms of financial risk with IR  then ask for their QC's Opinion on the matter. If they can't offer you that then consider your options.

[Kenny_Dobson]

I fully understand the implications and thank you for your concern but I have it in writing that as long as the employees use there own vehicles and materials (which we pay them an extra bonus so they can supply these things) and have the option to cover there shifts with someone else and can work with other companies there is no area for IR35 to come into affect.