[jeff1]

reading a topic on freezing water by mark f and there was a reply by chris cottrel, that got me thinking about grey area's for us again regarding HSE.

Now my own thoughts on this is, if you have just cleaned  the windows, the ground is still wet and you put down your grit/salt, now when you put down the grit the ground is wet and not frozen, so are you  taking preventative measures to stop someone slipping or admitting liability for your actions if someone slips,

we all know there out there looking for an excuse to sue us?
Don't the local councils take preventative measures on our main roads, don't HSE make us all take preventative measures. so my question is are we liable 

Here is chris's quote:-

Be mindful when putting down grit that you are acknowledging that there is a hazard present and if someone slips over that you can still be held responsible

[poleman]

You have shown you have done your best, be honest with you if your going to work where water might freeze then its very easy to turn down the flow at the head so that the water does not run on to the ground 

Andy

[Helen]

by putting down salt/grit onto just wet ground you are then taking preventative measires to stop that area freezing. If the ground was already frozen, the salt/grit would start to melt this down, but would suggest that if ground already frozen, maybe it is just a little too cold to be WFP'ng
Merry Xmas

[mark f]

i dont know!! this wfp lark is a right head ache.   Ive always thought h&s meant i should be looking after other people more than myself. But with wfp its almost like im alright but you can trip over my hose or slip on my ice and have spotty windows.

 sorry. having a bad day. did my house with wfp and it looks a dog. Wonder what the customers look like!

[jeff1]

i dont know!! this wfp lark is a right head ache.   Ive always thought h&s meant i should be looking after other people more than myself. But with wfp its almost like im alright but you can trip over my hose or slip on my ice and have spotty windows.

 sorry. having a bad day. did my house with wfp and it looks a dog. Wonder what the customers look like!

Mark Put your feet up for a couple of days and have a few beers, the guy's tell me it will come good and I'm sure it will for you to. Merry christmas to you.

[Chris Cottrell]

You have shown you have done your best, be honest with you if your going to work where water might freeze then its very easy to turn down the flow at the head so that the water does not run on to the ground 

Andy

All of the above is very true if you create the ice you put down salt simple (as indeed do I ) but as I was quoted as saying "you are acknowledging that there is a hazard present " and although you will have done all you can if some old bird slips it will be hard to say nowt to do with me could have frozen later after you washed your car love !!!!

Chris

[TVCS]

I put down salt and tell the owners thatit is there.  That way I feel that I have taken preventive measures regarding the possibility of ice forming and they know its there and know to be carefull. 
The quote from andy saying to turn down the flow to prevent the water from running onto the ground, You still need to rinse well otherwise there is no point in using the wfp.  I am still pretty green to this wfp lark but to reduce the flow and risk not rinsing properly seems daft as you will be wasting your time and effort.
Ant

[Chris Cottrell]

you don't necessarily need a high flow rate,  I use around 1 to 1.25 lpm on average but if I need to i could get by temporarily on 0.5 to 0.75 lpm for a few windows Its not unusable

[TVCS]

Fair enough. 

[poleman]

I can see you point, but end of the day the water was put there by the WFP user and if it freezes and then someone slips and sues, then its better you put git down so they dont slip and sue in the 1st place 

Andy

[jeff1]

Then is it not pointless putting out signs to say window cleaner at work, if someone falls over the hose and you have out your signs, then its pointless having them if they can still sue us. as I said before more grey area's for us to sort out.

[poleman]

Not grey, your have to warn the public, 1st rule of health & safety, you cant say why bother - it does work like that!

Andy

[trevor perry]

basically if a person slips and you have took precautions ie signs and salt you can still be sued but the amount sued would be less as the person who fell has to take some proportion of the blame also if precautions are took then you cant face a criminal prosecution because you have tried your best to follow health and safety law.
   the grey areas seem to get greyer and greyer the more laws they make.

[cherubs cleaning]

reading a topic on freezing water by mark f and there was a reply by chris cottrel, that got me thinking about grey area's for us again regarding HSE.

Now my own thoughts on this is, if you have just cleaned  the windows, the ground is still wet and you put down your grit/salt, now when you put down the grit the ground is wet and not frozen, so are you  taking preventative measures to stop someone slipping or admitting liability for your actions if someone slips,

we all know there out there looking for an excuse to sue us?
Don't the local councils take preventative measures on our main roads, don't HSE make us all take preventative measures. so my question is are we liable 

dont do com areas
Here is chris's quote:-

Be mindful when putting down grit that you are acknowledging that there is a hazard present and if someone slips over that you can still be held responsible

[rosskesava]

If it's likely to get that cold then we don't use wfp and that's it. The potential for problems especially with commercial customers is just to great as they will want to off load responsibility whether salt or grit gets put down or not. The chances are they will have more time and resources than us in terms of legal action.

For domestic customers, we abandoned wfp (and them) during the summer as the complaints were not worth the hassle in terms of what other work options we had so I can't really comment on that aspect. I must stress that I'm not knocking wfp as we use it but it that if you can do a job where there is no chance of complaint as opposed to a possibility, what one would you choose?

Anyway, where we work, the days where it gets that cold can be numbered on one hand so I see it as a day off. 

[pjulk]

If the water is likely to free using WFP i use my ladders and clean traditional.
I would rather do this than use grit and someone slip over on it and break a leg or something.

Paul

[Paul Coleman]

I usually use rock salt which seems fine.  Sometimes I use a spray bottle with an alcohol based solution.  It's not often such things are needed here in the south but I carry both items in winter just in case.

[pjulk]

No your right paul its not often we need anything down here.
That alcohol based solution sounds good though.

Paul

[Sir Squeaky]

If I slipped on unexpected gravel left by a window cleaner I'd sue the b'stard.

Use a squeegee and do it properly.
If I get wfp I won't use it in the high street.
Far too much of a liability. :

[Paul Coleman]

No your right paul its not often we need anything down here.
That alcohol based solution sounds good though.

Paul

Forgot to mention that I also carry a floor squeegee to clear any water that may land in porchways.