[craig jwc]

I haven't had too much trouble in the past cleaning this so called Self-Cleaning Glass, but have had a call from a new customer (2nd Clean) about the smears on the glass.

I am going back tomorrow to give them a going over again, but is there anything i could use to get these up properly. (i'm WFP)
Their old w/c who was Trad had similar problems but never bothered trying to sort it out.

Craig

[Count Phil]

I had a customer today with a new conservatory made of the stuff. said she doesn't want it doing. I just looked at all the frames and sills and thought...in your dreams.

I've done one for a while, quite a big house. If you do them trad you get a greasy feel on oyur fingers and scrim, like there's loads of windolene on them, just wfp them all and rinse off the glass (as in lift the brush and rinse), any little particles left from the brush, which probably won't leave water marks on normal glass, will be attacked by the chemicle reaction on the surface of this stuff and cause the problem. That's why the old bloke had trouble, think of the bits you leave from doing them trad and wiping with a scrim.

Just rinse them well.

[Jeff Brimble]

Over time I have come to hate Pilkingtons, they did not ask the trade what we thought just jumped in and tried to kick us below the belt and do us out of our livelyhood. Sod that.   
Their zillion pouind product does not work. The Frech and the States have similar products.
Its about time we got tough, told them and all our customers. Where are our trade fed and associations.
Self cleaning- Tripe.

[Pat Purcell]

I agree with you Jeff,self cleaning should be called non cleaning as they are a bear to do with trad or pure water,
The only problem with Window Cleaners telling everybody how bad they are is people suspect sour-grapes and when they install them its too late and after paying so much money for them people feel the need to justify it so they will not knock them,
 Kind of a catch 22 for us but the window manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank

[Jeff Brimble]

Yes some ex customers do have pride and wont admit they are wrong, they would probably have to ask another w/cer instead of asking you back.
Maybe we could advertise the fact that we have the expertise to  clean the "uncleanable selfclean glass that doesnt "
I have just decided to wage WAR  in my own very limited way against it.  So sorry in advance but its going to be my pet hate NEW YEARS RESOLUTION

[WavieDavie]

At Windex04 the Director of Pulex said he was going to work with Pilkington to develop a rubber compound for blades which would compliment the "Low Maintenance" glass (as it should be called).

Maybe someone should jog his memory, or as it's gone a bit quiet from Pulex on that topic, can we assume it's never going to happen as it can't be done?

[Jeff Brimble]

He probably got the same as us, - naff off, otherwise they would have to admit it needs cleaning, hmm.. which they do come to think of it, its supposed to be cleaned with a hosepipe and soft cloth, so that leaves squeegees out 

[Pat Purcell]

Jeff when we use squeegees on self cleaning glass it comes up a treat and on you go to the next window
A few hours later when the sun shines on that window it looks an awful mess,Squeegee lines everywhere ,smears if you detailed,even the light dust that has settled on the glass in the few hours since you cleaned it look horrifying
We have found that if you add a strong vinegar solution to your water it helps but still not good enough to be happy with the job
What are the problems you find with WFP as I would have thought pure water was probably the only way to get them clean or at least cleaner

[EasyClean]

I use to clean a house with the self cleaning glass (the owner is a retired window cleaner himself).
The first couple of times I WFP it was fine but it was a case of the more I cleaned it over time, the worse it got. In the end I decided to give up on the self cleaning glass as it was taking too much time for the hassle and wasn't profitable.
Even the owner couldn't clean it properly with a sqeegie and he would rant on to me about how good traditional window cleaning is compared to WFP. (must be a long lost uncle of squeeky clean).
I won't touch self cleaning glass in a million years as it's just not worth the hassle from the complaining customers and it's certainly not worth all the time and effort put in to clean this nightmare glass for the sensible price quoted for a normal clean!

[craig jwc]

What are the problems you find with WFP as I would have thought pure water was probably the only way to get them clean or at least cleaner

The problem i have had is that when you are scrubbing with the brush you can see a film on the glass following the brush.

This is what obviously are leaving the smears.

It tells you on the Pilkington website that in long dry spells that you will have to hose the glass down to remove the dirt - Well i turned my Varistream up to MAX and rinsed and rinsed and rinsed. This has still left the windows looking dirty according to the customer.

I'm back there today to give it another go.

Craig

[Jeff Brimble]

If the coating gets "upset" or if cleaned with vinegar it can take 48 hours to restart/recharge  itself.

[craig jwc]

Been back this morning to give windows a going over again.

Just got off the phone to customer as i thought i would give her a ring to see if they are any better.

She's very happy with them.

I cleaned them different this morning than i normally do. This time i pulled the brush from the top of the window too the bottom in one go, then gave them a couple of rinses.
Doing this i found you didn't seem to get the smear following the brush so much.

Think i have her neighbour to do after Xmas. She stood and watched me working and asked for a price.

Craig

[john tomkins]

How do you identify self cleaning glass.....is it stamped up as such or do the customers blurt it out?

[Pat Purcell]

If the coating gets "upset" or if cleaned with vinegar it can take 48 hours to restart/recharge  itself.

jeff over here partr of the manufacturers instructions for the initial clean is to use a vinegar solution to activate the self cleaning glass, Ive always figured that was a crock of ____, but i did not know that it was actually detrimental to the glass, or is restarting or recharging the glass a good thing

[Jeff Brimble]

Above my head really its to do with the photochromic coating ? on the surface, if its disturbed it needs to go thro some sort of process with uv light. I have mislaid my instruction book but will look for a link.

[Jeff Brimble]

Heres the link Pat lookmat the cleaning advice and the other bits. , If you have lead near it you have to treat it with patination oil. If you have a tap tds over 180 you have to use a water softner before you use a hose.  http://www.pilkingtonselfcleaningglass.co.uk/downloads;jsessionid=858EE89EA0AA3F85B821F044440D180F
 

[Pat Purcell]

"Error 404 document not found" The  maintenance and cleaning tips page will not open for me
Can I take it from your frustration that hosing them off with a tap water with less than 180tds does not work
Also what do they recommend to do to remove construction debris and paint etc or do they just conveniently ignore this problem as do the american manufacturers

[JM123]

like I've said before on this forum, approx 20% of our work is self cleaning glass.  It does not work at all, usually gets much dirtier than normal glass.  The best way to wfp it is to use the softest brush you have and very lightly brush (as the film can peel off), then just rinse as normal.

I've recently heard the Pilkington adverts are to be cancelled as trading standards are apparently unhappy with the claims made by Pilkington.  This is only what I have been told - I don't know if its true.  I think most people who get it realise over time that

a) its rubbish
b) its even worse than a)

[Jeff Brimble]

Pat Thats odd, works for me heres the main site go to the downloads section right at the bottom of the page.
http://www.pilkingtonselfcleaningglass.co.uk/?gclid=CLLzs6-tn4kCFQExZwod2wGm3A

[Pat Purcell]

Thanks Jeff, now im even more confused, they say that a rubber squeegee should not be used but include ettoree squeegee off as one of their approved cleaners,  Is it tongue to glass time or am i missing something