[poleman]

Just thought i would let every one know about  the Temporary Working At Height Directive, my office manager phoned the house of commons information office and they put him thought to the London Euro info centre and i have enclosed the email that they replyed with hope it is of any help to any one.

Andy

Dear John,

 

Thank you for contacting the London Euro Info Centre.

 

Further to our telephone conversation, please find below the link to the EU Directive 2001/45 on 'the minimum safety and health requirements for the use of work equipment by workers at work':

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/2001/l_195/l_19520010719en00460049.pdf

This Directive is to be implemented in the UK Law and the proposed date for Regulations to come into force is 19 July 2004. You can find this information on 'Euronews', the journal of HSE (p.13):

http://www.hse.gov.uk/aboutus/europe/apr04.pdf

 

I hope this information proves helpful. Please do not hesitate to contact me again if I can be of further assistance.

 

Best regards,

Marion

 

Marion CUGNET

European Information Assistant

Euro Info Centre  

London Chamber of Commerce and Industry

33 Queen Street

London, EC4R 1AP

Tel +44 (0) 20 7203 1914

Fax +44 (0) 20 7203 1812

mcugnet@londonchamber.co.uk
 www.londonchamber.co.uk

 

The Euro Info Centre (EIC) in London provides information on European Union issues including legislation, funding, public sector tenders and business opportunities in Europe. Visit our website at www.londonchamber.co.uk/europe

New Grantfinder service now available. Grantfinder can help you locate 4,000 plus grants that may be suitable for your company. Contact us on europe@londonchamber.co.uk

 

[Philip Hanson]

Thanks for that one Andy, the consultation document itself just gives "2004" as the coming into force date.

-Philip

[poleman]

Hi Philip

IT would seam that the Directive comes Law on the 19 July 04, however i have not had time to look at ever thing as the summer holidays coming up ever shcool wonts there windows cleaned.

Will see you on the 28 july BWCA have copys of you on sky news, on CD in DVD and MPEG format and i dont wont any money for them

Andy    

[CS_Win]

What is the EU directive?

[williamx]

I can't open the link so can you tell us in lay-mans terms not euro speak what the height restrictions are.

[poleman]

LINK FIX,

well you must be new here?

WINDOW CLEANING IS CHANGING

THE BELOW has been copy from our Moderator, posted in march of this year, hope you dont mind philip    

As I'm sure most will have heard by now, the UK will soon adopt European Directive 2001/45/EC also known as the Temporary Work at Height Directive.

We have discussed its impact on the window cleaning industry in general, noting that broadly speaking, later this year the use of Unsecured Ladders for window cleaning will be against the law.

(A number of other EU member states have gone even further, for example the Dutch government have banned the use of ladders completely, even for "Access")

Even though this causes us some inconvenience, lets not forget the reason for these laws in the first place.  About 10 window cleaners die every year in the UK, and many more are seriously injured.  That is a terrible safety record for any industry!  Imagine if a large company was killing 10 of its workers every year due to unsafe working practices in its factories- there would be an urgent enquiry, the company shut down and the directors jailed.  People would be outraged, and rightly so.

lets not make the mistake of thinking these laws won't be policed - they will.  And if you get caught, the HSE wont hesitate to prosecute.

Here is a link to NFMW&GC web site regarding the use of ladders.

http://www.nfmwgc.com/homepgs/hela.htm

make the change it could save your life, I have, I clean my windows with a water fed pole system, its the future of window cleaning.

Andy

[Philip Hanson]

I don't mind.

Remember that this is simply my interpretation of the new regulations, and some have strongly disagreed with me.  Read the whole thread here:

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Equipment;action=display;num=1080679821

But more importantly, read the proposed regulations for yourself here:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/consult/condocs/cd192.pdf

Note especially that window cleaning with pole systems instead of ladders is specifically mentioned on pade 68 and pade 116 paragraph 47

This is a contraversial issue, so I dont want to make any further comment really.  My best advice is to read the document for yourself and decide on the best course of action.  Act quickly though, the new regs come into force in a few months time and you could be prosecuted if you break them.  (Not to mention you'll be uninsured)

-Philip

PS I will give you that Money Andy!  I owe it to you!

[CS_Win]

well I'm new here, been cleaning windows for the best part of 20 years but only found this site yesterday, and had heard rumers of the directive but seen nothing concrete, Even today I read the most recent stuff from HSE with only little talk of this directive, and NOTHING about stopping us using ladders for our trade, but lots of sencible advice as to there use, so I'll read throu this stuff from your link (thanks) and see if it makes any sence, I wonder if it is sponcered by WFP companys? There still seems to be a load of draw backs with the use of these things apart from the expence, I can see some good reasons to swop but there are also some negatives,

[riz]

hi CS,

I converted 2 months ago best thing i ever did.

just had to say!!!!

paul

[poleman]

Regaring safety at work, i found out today a Hospital that i qouted and did not get as they went for a cheap qoute, the window cleaning that was doing them fell of his ladder and die, god rest is sole.

Andy  

[Philip Hanson]

so I'll read throu this stuff from your link (thanks) and see if it makes any sence, I wonder if it is sponcered by WFP companys?

The link is to the HSE's own website, its not sponsored by a commercial supplier.  There is not much information available yet other than the consultation document, but this contains the draft legislation.

Again, my advice is to read this document - especially the Draft regulations on pages 30-54 and the draft guidance to those regulations on pages 56-106.

Here is the link again, notice the web adress is part of the HSE website (The HSE [Health and Safety Executive] is the government body responsible for making and enforcing laws to do with health and safety.  It is they who are proposing the new laws as required by the European Directive)

http://www.hse.gov.uk/consult/condocs/cd192.pdf

Its dry reading, but do persevere with it.  It helps to actually print it out and read it that way.

Regaring safety at work, i found out today a Hospital that i qouted and did not get as they went for a cheap qoute, the window cleaning that was doing them fell of his ladder and die, god rest is sole.

Andy

A tragedy that.  We've all had near misses no doubt, 10 die every year in our trade from falls at height.
-Philip

[SteveTruman]

Just thought i would pop this little beauty in for your appraisal. Whilst removing tapes and stickers off new windows for a major house building company the H&S gentleman paid a visit to the site.. On seeing me up a ladder the guy came over and politely asked me to get off the ladder ( I had the ladder footed ). In the conversation which followed i was informed i should use a cherry picker or erect scaffolding to do that type of work in future. I asked about the cleaning of the windows and it was the same answer... So now if i use a ladder and a accident occurs i am not covered.. as he told me not to use ladders.. On contacting the companies head office i was informed that there is a h&s issue with the use of ladders on sites which is going to cost them £1000's, they told me not to use ladders and if possible reach out from inside and do my best that way  :-/ :-/ . So as far as i am concerned this directive must be in force now..

Steve

[CS_Win]

Just spoke? to the HSE up here in Leeds she said the directive wont be comming into force untill October, and they are not sure until then what it will actualy say, But she did say from her reading of the information available that it was only giving advice  regarding other options open to window cleaners as in the past ladder work has mainly been dealt with from a building site perspective, and window cleaners have a compleatly different work pattern to the building industry, She didnt think it would alter the way the HSE look at us, and its not such a big issue as folks are makeing out!! These arnt "quotes" just as Im now over 50 and  cant remember what happened 1/2 an hour ago! so its just the rough outline of what she said. I dare say someone will now shoot me down in flames!

[williamx]

I think that different councils will enforce the directive as they see fit and "tough luck" be to us.

[qwerty]

I can see a sharp rise in costs, contracts if H&S advisors are using this method.
Iam a health and safety advisor and run a cleaning company
I would not   Advise anyone or anybody to hang out of a window and reach to clean a window.
Safety first job later: If you cant do it safely dont do it at alll
surely its common sense to have a firm footing on a ladder
if you are hanging out of a window with one hand on the frame you cannot do the job properly.

Billy Smart acrobats were not professional cleaners sometimes:D

[dave_carroll]

CS_Win,
             thought it was just me,
                              can't remember why

[CS_Win]

Its because you stay up to late playing on the PC! :

[shinnyshinner]

Hi all
Read bits of the report
Check out page 125 par 85 as they approuched 3 window cleaning companies funny no one used traditional methods,none used double A-Frames (which could be useless when this comes in)
This is not good for the industry
Alan

[heritage lee]

If this comes into force on the 19th July 2004, will window cleaners still be able to get insurance for using ladders?

Lee

[Ian_Giles]

I'm not sure how insurance companies will deal with us, or what cop out clauses they will now add to their policies (along I am sure with myriad other clauses) but you can be sure they will do so.
I rarely use ladders now as I am a WFP user, but they are needed on some occasions.
I don't think that window cleaners on domestic accounts will be much affected, unless of course you have to make a claim on your insurance.
Those of us doing mostly commercial premises will be most at risk. IF you are working on schools or office complexes, high streets and so on you can be sure that what has to be rigidly adhered to on building sites will begin to be reflected more and more outside of those sites.
The one thing you can be sure of is that as time passes it WILL get harder and harder to use ladders.
Won't happen overnight of course, it will be a drip, drip thing...........a bit like having a wet rawhide strap around your neck and then going out in the sun..........

Ian