[HQCS (John Kastrian)]

Did a clean in a rental property,house had been converted to upstairs and downstairs flats,had to clean the downstairs flat carpets.
The electricity was switched off so looked under the stairs and switched all switches on,completed the clean and then switched all switches to off.
Had a call from the agent today complaining that we had not only turned off the downstairs electric but also a feed to upstairs,and the upstairs tenant was now complaining that his freezer had defrosted and wanted compensation.
The switch under the stairs was not labelled to indicate that it was for the upstairs supply,so who is at fault here?
John

[*paul_moss]

How long was it switched off for,because food in a freezer that has been switched off ( with the door kept shut) will stay frozen for up to 12 hours

[Mike Halliday]

if his electric was on and you turned if off then you are too blame.

to be blunt when did you become a qualified electrician to start turning on electric, what if it was turned off for a reason.

 I'd never turn on electric I'd get the householder to do it. Imagine if someone had been working on it upstairs and you turned it on


Mike

[Cloverleaf]

Should the agent be resposible for providing water electricity etc?

I think they have some resposibility as they are being paid for lettings management.

Although if I have a problem with access to water electricity I would usually ring them up.

Could be 50 / 50 here as they left you out on a limb a little.

[carpetguy]

If there was no indication of the comlexity of the wiring and / or no clear information / warning was issued I don't think you could be held responsible.

I'm not an electrician, but  have frequently found it necessary to turn on  / off power supplies in similar situations.

I'm not a gas fitter or plumber either, but , again have often found it necessary to increase the pressure in heating systems, or seek out shut off valves for water.

In the situation described the cleaner was simply carrying out normal procedures to allow him to do the work requested, by an agent, who should have informed him of any possibility of turning off a neighbours electricity, gas, or water supply.

IMO

robbie

[NigelD]

IMO You are

You should have noted the positions of all switches.

Changed those that you required to complete your job and then reset as you found them.

Nigel

[cleaning co]

imo its the owners fault and prob againts the law to hav a live feed for another property in another property  and very dangerous : and they should been clearly marked !!! as for frez stuff it takes at least 24 hours to defrost contents  id tell them to bog off !! or i report them to the local council  there is very strict controls over supply or work done on eletrics now days

[derikraven]

agreed, the flat upstairs should have a seperate fusebox....health and safety issue here! I think it's safe to say that any normal person would not expect a fusebox in a downstair flat to affect the upstair flat. Further, the fusebox should have been correctly marked indicating which fuses were which. I think the landlord has a lot to answer to here. Seems there's been corners cut during the alterations.

[The Great One]

HI

Cleaning Co is spot on here.

I do EOT cleaning all the time and you need the electric to carry out your work you have been asked to do, you are not an Electrician you had no way of knowing there was a feed to upstairs, even an electrician wouldn't know that without looking for it (or x-ray vision to look into walls)

You did your job and needed the means to carry it out, either the La or landlord should of made you aware that

A. The Electric was off in the first place

B. there was a seperate feed for upsatirs and which switch it was.

Good luck

Regards

Martin

[HQCS (John Kastrian)]

Thanks for replies guys,even the ones with hints of sarcasm,if I was a qualified electrician I would not be earning a living pushing a wand around 
Just to clarify a couple of points-
Electricity to downstairs flat was switched off at fusebox under the stairs and there was also a switch adjacent to the fusebox,it was this switch that led to upstairs,I know now that it was in the on position when I arrived,but of course it was switched off when I left.I do not know if it was fed directly from the fusebox or from the mains supply before the fusebox,but in my opinion it should not have been there if it was to feed another property,and in any event should have been clearly marked.I completed the job at about 3pm and the upstairs tenant had already left for work (shift worker) so did not realise there was no electricity until he got home about 10-30 pm,thinking it was a power cut he called the electricity supplier and it was they who advised him it was fed from downstairs.
I am assuming the feed was to a seperate meter in his upstairs flat,but don't know at this stage.It was not until sat morn that they got hold of the landlord to switch the power back on,so it would have been off for about 18 hrs.
Back to the subject of having to switch electricity on or off,at least those of us that work within the rental sector will know that it is very common to have to turn on elec/gas/water in vacant properties,as well as having to load elect/gas cards at times,and no I'm not a qualified plumber or gas fitter either. :
The agent is away until tuesday so will know more then.
John

[Phil Marlor]

Dont get this problem with a TM!

Phil

[Mike Halliday]

I stand by what i said, I would never turn on an electric supply.

if i did rental properties I would always advise the letting agent that electric & water is required.

if they were not  on, I'd not do the job.

Mike

[HQCS (John Kastrian)]

Phil,you would if it was dark and no leccy,unless you have some of those headmounted led lights  
John

[HQCS (John Kastrian)]

Mike,we have to agree to disagree m8 
I don't know how many rental props you get but we get an awful lot and it is common for the outgoing tenant or even the landlord or agent to turn off the services,usually this is not a problem,but I have learned a lesson from this and will be more careful in future.
Am still looking into the legalities of this electrical installation.
John

[Billy Russell]

i agree with mike! i also do a lot of end of tenancy and rental props and on my site surveys to quote the job in hand i always look for a water supply and and an electricity supply and always advise the letting agent or landlord that these are a must and to ensure these are on on the day of the job! if there not i charge for the inconvinence!

 all the best

Will

[cleaning co]

i think mike and will are missing the point ,regardless of a survey or not this property should not hav a live feed to another property and at best should hav had stickers/notices on each switch stating that ie switch 2 feeds the upstairs flat , what if the person upstairs had a medical prob that relied on power? and even if u surveyed the job how would u hav know that the supply was also for upstairs ?   only one person at fault here and braking the law is the landlord
gary

[Steve Chapman]

we have done hundreds of rental properties and have learnt this lesson before, you need to qualify with the letting agency that it is ok to switch power and water on and where each is located, otherwise it can be very dangerous, as sometimes work is in progress or been left in a precarious way.

once we turned the water on in a flat not knowing some pipes had been disconnected, fortunately caught it in time before too much damage

a quick flood restoration followed

agents are a bit thick sometimes and no matter how many jobs you do for them, they often forget the necessary things like water and electric or reasons not to touch it!

I think if you are going to flick the switch or turn anything on you need to be absolutely sure whats going to happen, otherwise you're taking a huge risk.


regards
steve

[cleaning co]

if a letting agent asks u to clean a carpet and says heres the keys go do it   u say is there power ?  they say should be if not switch it on  u just do it  if there is a fault /havnt told u it supplys upstairs etc its on there heads period  we are not sparkeys etc  and do all agents even know that the landlords has done somthing in a property ? prob not,  if u asked every agent to come with u to a prop 10 miles away to turn the power on they say get stuffed just turn it on and off  ,in noway are we liable for anything in this situ unless its are machines /cords / or workmanship that causes a problem

[fletch]

Hi all,
From what I understand is that you stated that you were aware that it was a house converted into 2 flats before entering the premises, you then stated that there was no power to the flat you needed to clean, you then found the power terminal, half of the switches must of been in the on position to power the flat above.
When you completed your work you switched all the switches to the off position.
From the evidence provided by yourself I find you guilty as charged, your punishment is to receive 50 lashes of electrical twin flex from the tenant above at 06:00hrs on the 01/01/2007. Dismissed.

[cleaning co]

lol   nice one fletch