[P @ F]

Hi , i went to see a bookkeeper today , he is willing to do 12 months books and tax return for £240 + vat
First is this a good price ?
Also , he wants me to keep a carbon book and have every customer done each day put into this book seperately , do you have to do this ?
Its just that if i am sorting out all the paperwork for him and keeping this book aswell , then what am i actually paying him for , he does do tax returns only for £40 + vat

 What should i do !   Help !

 Rich  P @ F

[Extremeclean]

Hi Rich.

If you are a sole trader buy GEORGE the window cleaning programme. I think its £50.00.  You get your work organised with reports and all sorts and you can easily get all the info you need to do your tax return from it.

You will benefit from working in an organised way (Not saying you dont already) and keep your books up to date as well.

(Another) Rich. 

[craig jwc]

Rich (Extremeclean) if you knew him you would know how dis-organised he really is

Mr P@F did he say why you have to keep a carbon copy of each customer each day?

Craig

[P @ F]

Hi Rich , for some reason i dont like the idea of george , it is easy for me to just put my daily work in a diary , i then have another diary with money in and money out .
I keep all my reciepts in a month by month filing box , its easy to do the totalling up at the end of each year , so do i really need by law to do this receipt for every customer bit , it just seems this bloke is wanting me to do it to make his life easier , but thats what im paying him for isnt it ?

 Rich P @ F

[P @ F]

Hi craig , he said it was to make sure that all was going through the books and that it could help when or if i am ever investigated .
But if i ever am i would just turn over my diary , nothing is missing , and all i do goes into the book .
I wanted him to do it for me TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER , NOT TO MAKE MORE WORK FOR MYSELF !

 Rich P @ F

[TVCS]

I had a meeting with the tax people when I started up.  this nice lady stated that I should be giving a receit to ALL my customers.  I cant say that I do though.  I stated to and most people said not to bother and I got out of the habit.  At the end of the day if the customers dont want one you are only making a copy for yourself which you will already have in your diary.
I use George and find this to be a good way to keep organised.
My accountant charged me £10 for my last tax return.  Bless her.
Ant
TVCS

[Fast 1 *]

I wouldnt worry too much.I am aware how much i have earnt,and thats what im putting through.You are,by law,supposed to keep a record of what work you have done,apparently failiure to do so results in a £3000 fine.

[carlfoster]

I was investigated by the IR when I first started window cleaning and they didn't accept a straightforward computer print out as evidence of earnings They said they needed something that shows months of working. Thats why I mark on my printed out work sheets work done and who's paid and I file these away just in case it ever happens again.

Most companies these days give you a printed out receipt, which most people throw away. Surely a copy of this is fine. So, perhaps printing a bunch of receipts for the days work in the morning is a good idea.

I might look at including something like this into my Round Organiser program.

[Paul Coleman]

Hi , i went to see a bookkeeper today , he is willing to do 12 months books and tax return for £240 + vat
First is this a good price ?
Also , he wants me to keep a carbon book and have every customer done each day put into this book seperately , do you have to do this ?
Its just that if i am sorting out all the paperwork for him and keeping this book aswell , then what am i actually paying him for , he does do tax returns only for £40 + vat

 What should i do !   Help !

 Rich  P @ F

That degree of record keeping sounds excessive but he's quite right in saying that the taxman would find it harder to query your income than if kept on a computer.
Personally, I recall all my stuff in a spreadsheet and only give receipts to customers who ask for them or for commercial jobs where I have to invoice in order to get paid.  There is no legal obliugation to give out receipts to every customer but there is a legal obligation to keep a record of each individual transaction.  Spreadsheets, databases and, I'm told, programs like George are ideal for this.  So long as you record accurately, there should be no problem.

[Trevor Knight]

Hi craig , he said it was to make sure that all was going through the books and that it could help when or if i am ever investigated .
But if i ever am i would just turn over my diary , nothing is missing , and all i do goes into the book .
I wanted him to do it for me TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER , NOT TO MAKE MORE WORK FOR MYSELF !

 Rich P @ F

A book with all my customers records in?? hmmm, shall I put this house in here today or not??/ what difference does a book make 

Yes records are invaluable and a definate must. The role of an accountant isn't just to do your paperwork, but the ensure you calim for everything correctly, cross the T's and dot the i's and all in all make sure your all in order. An accountant is also very useful when looking a leasing agreements/hire purchase and others alike.

My advice, keep as much records of your own as you can to reduce yout accountancy bill and make sure your accountant is familiar with this industry.

[Paul Coleman]

Hi craig , he said it was to make sure that all was going through the books and that it could help when or if i am ever investigated .
But if i ever am i would just turn over my diary , nothing is missing , and all i do goes into the book .
I wanted him to do it for me TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER , NOT TO MAKE MORE WORK FOR MYSELF !

 Rich P @ F

A book with all my customers records in?? hmmm, shall I put this house in here today or not??/ what difference does a book make 

Yes records are invaluable and a definate must. The role of an accountant isn't just to do your paperwork, but the ensure you calim for everything correctly, cross the T's and dot the i's and all in all make sure your all in order. An accountant is also very useful when looking a leasing agreements/hire purchase and others alike.

My advice, keep as much records of your own as you can to reduce yout accountancy bill and make sure your accountant is familiar with this industry.

Of course a carbon book doesn't stop someone leaving work out as they go but it does mean that alterations are more obvious and could be questioned.
I believe that good record keeping is essential too so I prefer to keep mine on computer.  So long as the software is set upocorrectly, it makes work scheduling and the adding up a lot easier.

[Helen]

Back to the original question £240.00 plus vat. I would say this is good IF he is going to do the slog of the bookkeeping, but you do have to so some sort of written record so that he has something to work from. Ours charges £180.00 plus vat, but we do all the recording by spreadsheet for him on a monthly basis and package it for him with the monthly recipts etc etc. All he has left is the nitty gritty which he knows best. We get copies of the headed signed by chartrerd accountant documents he has to send off and we are all happy. He even collects from us, usually Sundays too as only time he gets abd his charge for that collection, probably 2 hours of talk and a gallon of coffee....nicey man

[Paul Coleman]

Back to the original question £240.00 plus vat. I would say this is good IF he is going to do the slog of the bookkeeping, but you do have to so some sort of written record so that he has something to work from. Ours charges £180.00 plus vat, but we do all the recording by spreadsheet for him on a monthly basis and package it for him with the monthly recipts etc etc. All he has left is the nitty gritty which he knows best. We get copies of the headed signed by chartrerd accountant documents he has to send off and we are all happy. He even collects from us, usually Sundays too as only time he gets abd his charge for that collection, probably 2 hours of talk and a gallon of coffee....nicey man

Oh yeah.  I forgot to address thge original question - oops !!   

£240 + VAT seems fairly OK.  You could probably get it cheaper but you could pay a lot more too.  I pay about £220 (no VAT).

[petski2]

I just use a Simplex D book,enter earnings and outgoings and pin any reciepts to that weeks page.Easy
My accountant says its a load of rubbish that they expect you to record every single financial transaction when you are a window cleaner.He is happy with a daily total and weekly,which is exactly what the Simplex D book is for.
I use George for my work so I can call up any transactions with that.

[craig jwc]

I don't use an accountant, and only keep records of weekly and monthly totals.
Inland Revenue told me that was fine as they weren't interested in daily amounts and each individual job.

Craig

[Paul Coleman]

I don't use an accountant, and only keep records of weekly and monthly totals.
Inland Revenue told me that was fine as they weren't interested in daily amounts and each individual job.

Craig

I'm very surprised to hear that Craig.  I'm sure I read somewhere in the IR's own literature that each individual transaction needs to be recorded.

[Helen]

Likewise, you have to be able to prove each transaction in or out that you have. Providing a weekly/monthly total is fine, but that is  made up of individual transactions anyway, that you must have a record of somewhere.

[tatman]

i went to a tax semiar earlier in the year inland rev told me you dont need to issue reciepts to every customer BE A NIGHTMARE. I only issue if requested which isnt very offen. mainly commercal so they can claim from it themselves. I do daily total records

[craig jwc]

I'm going to phone the Inland Revenue tomorrow to see if i can find out.

I was told in 2005 that all i needed to keep was weekly and monthly totals.
I even asked if they wanted daily totals and each individual jobs recorded and they told me that it would be too much paperwork to keep and they wouldn't ask to see anything like that.

I'm a bit annoyed if they have told me wrong and a bit worried.

My weekly work is written out on a sheet and totalled up at the end of the week and recorded. Because i was told i didn't have to keep daily records i shred this work sheet up as it had customers addresses and phone numbers on.

From next year i am going to use George so everything will be there in whatever format they want it.

My diary gets altered around so much with fitting in new work, bad weather etc i couldn't even use that as proof. If it is right about the daily records and was told this i would have kept it a bit better and kept all my worksheets.

Not Happy now

Craig

[Paul Coleman]

I'm going to phone the Inland Revenue tomorrow to see if i can find out.

I was told in 2005 that all i needed to keep was weekly and monthly totals.
I even asked if they wanted daily totals and each individual jobs recorded and they told me that it would be too much paperwork to keep and they wouldn't ask to see anything like that.

I'm a bit annoyed if they have told me wrong and a bit worried.

My weekly work is written out on a sheet and totalled up at the end of the week and recorded. Because i was told i didn't have to keep daily records i shred this work sheet up as it had customers addresses and phone numbers on.

From next year i am going to use George so everything will be there in whatever format they want it.

My diary gets altered around so much with fitting in new work, bad weather etc i couldn't even use that as proof. If it is right about the daily records and was told this i would have kept it a bit better and kept all my worksheets.

Not Happy now

Craig

Craig.  Rather than phone them I suggest that you write to them.  That way you are more likely to get the correct answer because the enquiry should be passed to someone who knows their stuff.  Also, when you receive the reply, you will have written proof of their answer - important if you ever are investigated.  If the IR have to give you a written answer, I believe that it is more likely to be the correct one.