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BRSL

  • Posts: 660
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2006, 09:19:11 pm »
Heloooooo Geoff

I believe that viscose can shrink as it absorbs water at an alarming rate so be carefull that it's not been streached tightly over the frame as it could split

James
W - www.brsl.co.nz
E - james@brsl.co.nz

Kind regards James C

Geoff Jewkes

  • Posts: 654
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2006, 09:23:56 pm »
Helloooooooo jay. I'm really twitchy about this one now!!! Do chemdry use hot solvent as apparently they didn`t hesitate about the suite though gave nothing away about method of cleaning. They`re charging £340 per 3 piece suite in Wrexham area now  :o :o

matt jones

  • Posts: 411
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2006, 09:56:29 pm »
I thought viscous rayon was a natural velvet and was also told it was a no no to wet clean.

*paul_moss

  • Posts: 2961
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2006, 10:01:03 pm »
I think you will find this to be  viscose velor which it a synthetic fibre and easy to wet clean with no shrinkage.
If it is rayon or has any rayon in it DONT hwe it unles you know exactly what you are doing as rayon will disintergrate under pressure from water and will disolve in front of your eyes. :o
However I dont think this composite blend has any rayon in.
Paul Moss  MBICSc
www.mosscleaning.co.uk
REMOVED FOR POSTING OFFENSIVE MATERIAL

mark_roberts

  • Posts: 1899
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2006, 10:09:48 pm »
I thought viscose was another word for rayon!

Anyway do what Mike says.

And contact Derek Bolton as hes the only voice on upholstery worth listening too and not this lot.

Mark

Shaun_Ashmore

  • Posts: 11382
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2006, 10:36:50 pm »
Viscose does funny things when wet, colour bleed can occur also the pile goes very hard when wet cleaned although sometimes can be 'brushed up'.

Shrinkage isn't really top of the list but it goes very weak when wet and can stay wet longer than any other fabric so if you were to wet clean it take a few turbo driers.

Be very careful but it's do-able.

Shaun

matt jones

  • Posts: 411
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2006, 10:48:09 pm »
viscose is another word for rayon, and viscose velour is a natural velvet, velour being french term for velvet i think, it is not synthetic im pretty sure on that. And i'm sure it is a no no when it comes to hwe i'm surprised you don't know that paul as i am a newbie i'm pretty sure what i have said to be correct but if i'm wrong them i blame the prochem trainers as this is what i was told  :) plus it is also in there manual.
matt

Mark Roberts

  • Posts: 390
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2006, 10:55:31 pm »
Viscose is a process used to make rayon, hence why viscose is known as rayon.

As Shaun says its dodgy stuff that has caught out many.

the red carpet

  • Posts: 1162
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2006, 11:33:50 pm »
not saying im right, but to my knowledge viscose and rayon are the same things

And in the couple of instances iv seen and heard about, the pile matts up and goes rock hard.

This is on pile fabrics, not flat fabrics that are 100% viscose.

Yours is about 50/50 cotton and viscose so you could treat it as either, but is it worth the risk?

My advice, dry clean or walk away

Derek

Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2006, 06:26:31 am »
Some of the things I am reading on here are frightening me too... let me try to gather it all together...

Viscose Rayon is a regenerated fibre made from cotton/wood dissolved in cellulose. It tests like cotton but can lose up to 70% of its strength when wet.....so no severe agitation.
In its pile form it can cause problems if wet cleaned but it can sometimes be difficult to identify as the manufacturers are very clever. Other similar looking products are...cotton velvet (dry clean)..Acrylic pile fabrics (wet clean)...Flock fabrics (some are wet clean only whilst others are dry clean only)...Viscose Rayon pile fabric (dry clean).. some cleaners do wet clean if excessively dirty but fibres will swell and there will be a loss of 'feel'

That sounds easy but the manufacturers are good at making them all look and feel the same...identify is the key issue...every time

In its woven form Viscose Rayon can be wet cleaned with care...just watch colours which may bleed and weaknesses, usually in the main body contact areas

Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2006, 12:50:21 pm »
Derek Bolton has summed this up very well.

If, I was cleaning this I would wet clean the ZIP END of a cushion first. Dry with a hairdryer or allow to dry naturally. Then. I would compare the before and after. (appearance & feel)

With regards to CHENILLE I have experienced customers dissatisfaction with pressure marks that tend to look like SHADING of the fabric, soon after they have used there upholstery. ???

Good Luck

Alan

*paul_moss

  • Posts: 2961
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2006, 04:31:41 pm »
Matt
If you read my response you would understand that viscose is a synthetic composite fabric and depending on the composite can be wet cleaned with no problems.
However Rayon viscose can be dangerouse to wet clean dependant on  volume,age and wear ( as Derek has described)
So you fully understand this ( as a newby) may be worth while reading the following;

Viscose is a blend of synthetic fibres.

Viscose was first used for coating fabrics which it did quite successfully in the late eighties. However, when Cross and his partners tried to make solid objects like umbrella handles they were found to be much too brittle.

Further development led to Viscose being spun into thread for embroidery and trimmings. Eventually, after Samuel Courtauld & Co. had taken over in 1904, Viscose manufacture became big business. By the twenties and thirties it had almost completely replaced the traditional cotton and wool for women’s stockings and underwear. Similar changes occurred in the US and in Europe, too. Viscose was also being used for linings and furnishing fabrics; providing the staple for towels and table-cloths and was being made into high tenacity yarn for tires. Yet other uses included the manufacture of sponges and absorbent cloths.


Rayon or Rayon viscose

Rayon is a generic term, coined in 1924, for artificial textile
 material composed of reconstituted, regenerated, and purified cellulose derived from plant sources. Developed in the late 19th century as a substitute for silk, this first semi-synthetic fibre is sometimes misnamed “artificial silk.”

 ;)



Paul Moss  MBICSc
www.mosscleaning.co.uk
REMOVED FOR POSTING OFFENSIVE MATERIAL

Kev Loomes

  • Posts: 1353
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2006, 06:18:09 pm »
As far as I am aware, there is only one viscose. Essentially viscose ISN'T synthetic.

Derek has explained the process exactly. Slightly expanding, yes it IS man made - but from natural elements (again, as Derek explains). Just because something is man made, doesnt mean it's synthetic which is a misconception.

Viscose usually in woven form is fine and can be wet cleaned, but must never be wet cleaned in pile form - otherwise 9 times out of ten you'll own the suite. Sensible opinions have been expressed - basically by testing first.

If the mix of fibres originally mentioned are in pile form, just be careful. Good luck!

Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2006, 06:24:24 pm »
Strictly speaking Kevin it is synthetic, but I know what you are getting at.

Definitions

1. Relating to, involving, or of the nature of synthesis.
2. Chemistry Produced by synthesis, especially not of natural origin.
3.
a. Not natural or genuine; artificial or contrived: "counterfeit rhetoric that flourishes when passions are synthetic" George F. Will.
b. Prepared or made artificially: synthetic leather. See Synonyms at artificial.
4. Linguistics Relating to or being a language, such as Latin or Russian, that uses inflectional affixes to express syntactic relationships.
5. Logic & Philosophy Relating to or being a proposition that attributes to a subject a predicate not inherent in the subject and that does not result in a contradiction if negated.

Mark Roberts

  • Posts: 390
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2006, 06:49:56 pm »
Seems there is a lot of confusion about viscose and rayon...there is no difference...

The International Organization for Standardization (ISO) prefers the name viscose for rayon (regenerated cellulose) obtained by the viscose process. The name viscose was derived from the word viscous, which describes the liquid state of the spinning solution used to make rayon.

The Viscose process is the most common and recognized process for making rayon and this is where the confusion lies, at first it was called viscose because of the way it was made, then they changed it too rayon in 1924, now the Iso people like to call viscose rayon just viscose.

It is not a natural fibre, and its not synthetic. It is a fibre formed by regenerating natural materials into a usable form.



Geoff Jewkes

  • Posts: 654
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2006, 07:34:00 pm »
What the hell have I started???  ??? ::) ;D :P

Geoff Jewkes

  • Posts: 654
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2006, 07:35:09 pm »
I reaaly think i'm gonna pass on this suite....... just bought a new one .... don't need another   ;D ;D

*paul_moss

  • Posts: 2961
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2006, 07:37:47 pm »
 ;D
A good debate.

I think on this one guy's it is mainly a difference of terminology that we are using that may be confusing.
Paul Moss  MBICSc
www.mosscleaning.co.uk
REMOVED FOR POSTING OFFENSIVE MATERIAL

BRSL

  • Posts: 660
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2006, 07:44:18 pm »
This is what one of my manuals reads !! sorry about the length of post  ;)

D. Rayon
In a search for a product that could match silk, a Frenchman by the name of Count Hilaire de Chandonnet developed the first "man made" fiber. In 1891, he dissolved the pulp of mulberry trees (since silkworms fed on the leaves) in chemicals and forced the solution through a metal plate with tiny holes in it. It was then exposed to heated air, or chemicals, to harden the solution into a filament fiber. This process of taking a cellulose material, decomposing it and regenerating it with a new and more useful form, produces what is know today as a "regenerated cellulose" fiber.

This was how we came to have what is more commonly known as rayon. It is one of the more interesting fabrics, since it is man made and yet the material is actually natural cellulose with characteristics and properties of cellulose fibers. It is the natural side of rayon that we as cleaners are concerned with so we list it as natural.
The manufacture of rayon is different today than it was when Count Hilaire de Chardonnet invented and produced it in the 19th century. New and better processes have improved the quality and strength of rayon fibers.

Rayon is a filament fiber that can be cut into staple fibers, as desired. A cross section view of it shows it to be very irregular shape. It can be made into any shape desired by shaping the holes on the spinnerette. Usually, it is the jagged irregular shape that is preferred. Rayon has a very high luster and is often treated with titanium dioxide to reduce the brightness or "de-luster" the fibers.
It is possible to add color to the fiber while it is in a viscose (liquid) state prior to passing it through the spinnerette. This is termed "solution dyeing". It provides a stable color that is actually part of the fiber itself. However, this is not generally preferred by manufacturers. Rayon fibers are usually manufactured months before they are made into fabrics and, since color trends change so rapidly in the textile industry, it is better to dye the fibers, yarns, or fabric at the mill.
Rayon is inherently weak. It does not have the regular chains of molecules that other natural fibers develop in growth, since it has been decomposed and regenerated. Therefore, the molecules are randomly stuck together and have little natural strength. It is manufactured today with wood pulp and a small percentage of cotton linters (the short cotton fibers not use in the manufacture of cotton). This has improved its strength since its original form, but not much.
When wet, its strength decreases markedly. Remember how wood softens in water, and it is easy to see how weak rayon becomes, especially when you realize how thin it is as a fiber.
It is also more absorbent than even cotton or linen. The fibers actually swell with water. This causes the wall of the fiber to become thinner and, therefore, weaker.
Rayon is very unstable in its length. It is easily shrunk and does not return to normal length easily. This is apparent in rayon upholstery fabrics. When it is wet, it will shrink easily. Sometimes, if it is stretched tightly over a frame and water is applied, it will shrink and tear, due to its weakness. Unlike cotton and linen, rayon does not shrink out the manufacturer's stretch the first time it is preshrunk. Every time it gets wet it will shrink a little more. Most rayon fabrics are preshrunk and then treated with resins to reduce the problem.
Sunlight will damage rayon faster than the other cellulose fibers. Therefore, it is not good for draperies. Rayon cannot take high temperatures when dry.
There is very little pure rayon upholstery fabrics on the market today. it is used as a blend with acetate, cotton or other fibers. It can be wet cleaned as easily as other fabrics with basically the same precautions. Don't over-wet or use strong chemicals on rayon. And, as always, check for color stability prior to cleaning.
Rayon will support mildew. The only insect that attacks rayon is the silverfish.
W - www.brsl.co.nz
E - james@brsl.co.nz

Kind regards James C

Geoff Jewkes

  • Posts: 654
Re: Lounge suite
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2006, 07:50:16 pm »
Jay...... my mind is blown with this topic............I want to hang mysel   :o  ;D  ;Df