[Terry_Burrows]

;)Karlos I do have an active roll,I went to a meeting
today from 10 oclock untill 5 o clock!I do understand
what your saying,I thought the Fed came up with £100
for you,as your fees,and they said they are waiting for your reply as your post would cost more over the year

[karlosdaze]

Thanks Terry.
I am still awaiting an official reply off the fed, as I mentioned in a previous post. I questioned the offer of 4 magazines and the use of the logo, and am still waiting for a reply. Beryl said she would put it to the board and give me further information when and whence it came through...I am still waiting. The fact that I have to pick away in 2 news boards to glean a reply, doesn't give me much confidence in the running of the federation so far. Please could you answer in respect to the following federation committee minutes.
Executive Committee Meeting Minutes for 1st March 1999, p.2, pars.1, 2
Executive Committee Meeting Minutes for 5th July 1999, p1,par.7
Executive Committee Meeting Minutes for 6th December 1999, p1,pars. 5, 6
Executive Committee Meeting Minutes for 6th March 2000, p1,par. 5
With all due respect, I don't think the fed has looked solidly into the case of international members, I thought they would welcome the chance to expand. As far as I know their is nothing that has the equivalent standing in Europe and would promote the fed even further, and bring thousands more to it's knowledge & experience in it's field, which could in turn lead to new opportunities and business.
Thanks for looking into this Terry.

[sam hughes]

I remeber sending a 1cm thick brochure to lanzarote and it cost £2, 4 magazines is only £8.

[Andrew]

NFMW&GC  AND OVER SEAS MEMBERSHIP

I am still awaiting an official reply off the fed, as I mentioned in a previous post. I questioned the offer of 4 magazines and the use of the logo, and am still waiting for a reply. Beryl said she would put it to the board and give me further information when and whence it came through...I am still waiting. The fact that I have to pick away in 2 news boards to glean a reply, doesn't give me much confidence in the running of the federation so far.

Terry i find the under handed way you are covering over the sins of the Fed on the issue of membership for none UK members disturbing.  I beleive its right that the Forum are aware of the facts of the situation.

Karl is a victim of Federation humbug!    It was previously agreed that none UK individuals could become Fed members. Details of what their membership would include were also agreed.  

Note the following, extracts from Executive Committee meeting minutes:

Executive Committee Meeting Minutes for 1st March 1999, p.2, pars.1, 2

Following a discussion about overseas membership - A Lee proposed that we should accept them, seconded by A. Johnson Cooper...A. Walker concerns about basis on which they should be accepted ... A. Walker amended the proposal to accept membership if they are in good standing [with any trade association representing window cleaners that might exist in the country in which they operate} - seconded by G. Dobson. Vote carried.

Executive Committee Meeting Minutes for 5th July 1999, p1,par.7

...proposal by Mr Dodson for international membership fee - for a one-man band of £25 [E35.25] seconded by Treasurer. Vote carried.

Executive Committee Meeting Minutes for 6th December 1999, p1,pars. 5, 6

T Cosgrove proposed not to accept international members on to the committee seconded by Mr Dobson. Vote revealed two abstentions, A Walker and A Lee.  It is agreed to table to the March Meeting and take the draft [international membership] application form away for further consideration.

Mr Dobson proposed we should send Window Talk to ... over seas enquirers at a cost of £1.50 [E2.11]plus carriage seconded by M Baxter.

Executive Committee Meeting Minutes for 6th March 2000, p1,par. 5

Secretary advised that only Andrew Walker's draft [of the proposed international membership application form] has been amended and returned - Tabled pending a complete Committee's response.

So far as i can see from the minutes the only reason for over seas window cleaners not being allowed membership, at present is that Executive Committee would not put the effort into producing a suitable application form, for prospective oversees members.

Andrew from Edu-Clean UK

[karlosdaze]

Thanks for the back up Andrew.
It seems that membership has gone uup 400% since 1999.

[aquarius4]

i have seen you guys up town. can you put some work my way?

[Bryan_Dolby]

Bryan Dolby
I have a meeting with the company on thursday,if anybodys still having problems contact methrough this site
BRYAN

[karlosdaze]

Hi Bryan,
A meeting with NFMW&GC or Anglian windows?

[Bryan_Dolby]

Hello Karlosdaze
Meeting with Anglican on Thursday
Your problem about joining the fed seems like a mountain
I will look in to this personally,but it will take a few days
Bryan Doby
chairman
NFMWGC

[STEVE71163]

Hi Bryan,
            Will everyone that is a member of the NFMWGC get listed

Steve Lowe

[karlosdaze]

Hi Bryan,
Yes it's at least a year old mountain. Could you ask Anglian if they intend to post "findmeawindowcleaner" in countrys overseas. I did post my details, but don't show up under Mallorca or Spain. It would be good to show that they can find a reliable window cleaner abroad thats also registered with a authoritive body! I'm not having much success with either company.

[Andrew]

Your problem about joining the fed seems like a mountain  I will look in to this personally,but it will take a few days
Bryan Doby
chairman  
NFMWGC

Your disloyalty to your colleagues on the Fed's Executive Committee galls me Mr Dolby.  I would suggest that by far the majority of the "Clean it Up" Forum  members, who read your words, take their inference to be that others are the source of Karls problem - but you, well your the solution - the cavalry galloping to his rescue! What ever the end results of your present intervention, feined or other wise, the fact is that you are at least equally responsible (if not more so) along with your fellow Executive Committee members, for the willfully obstructive and uncooperative manner that Karl has been subjected  to!

May i ask who chaired the Executive Committee Meeting that took place 1st March 1999, when "following a discussion about overseas membership - A Lee proposed that we should accept them, seconded by A. Johnson Cooper...A. Walker concerns about basis on which they should be accepted ... A. Walker amended the proposal to accept membership if they are in good standing [with any trade association representing window cleaners that might exist in the country in which they operate} - seconded by G. Dobson. Vote carried. "
(Executive Committee Meeting Minutes for 1st March 1999, p.2, pars.1, 2)

YOU DID!

Who chaired the Executive Committee Meeting that took place 5th July 1999, when the Minutes say, " ...proposal by Mr Dodson for international membership fee - for a one-man band of £25 [E35.25] seconded by Treasurer. Vote carried. (Executive Committee Meeting Minutes for 5th July 1999, p1,par.7)

YOU DID
 
Who chaired the Executive Committee Meeting that took place 6th December 1999, when, "T Cosgrove proposed not to accept international members on to the committee seconded by Mr Dobson. Vote revealed two abstentions, A Walker and A Lee.  It is agreed to table to the March Meeting and take the draft [international membership] application form away for further consideration.  Mr Dobson proposed we should send Window Talk to ... over seas enquirers at a cost of £1.50 [E2.11]plus carriage seconded by M Baxter." (
Executive Committee Meeting Minutes for 6th December 1999, p1,pars. 5, 6)
 
YOU DID

Who chaired the Executive Committee Meeting that took place 6th March 2000, when the general, "Secretary advised that only Andrew Walker's draft [of the proposed international membership application form] has been amended and returned - Tabled pending a complete Committee's response."(Executive Committee Meeting Minutes for 6th March 2000, p1,par. 5)

YOU DID
 
I would put it to you that, despite all the agreed Federation procedure, outlined above, which you had a part in formulating, that you personally presided over, and which is common knowege to you, you have been more than happy to preside over an Executive Committee that bars Karl from rightful membership!

Surely the decision to take this to the next AGM, to create a new rule regarding none UK residents joining the Fed, is just a straight forward xenaphobic delaying tactic, in the hope that Karl loses interest!   When was the need for a rule change ever muted before!!

Andrew Walker - Edu-Clean UK

[The_Fed_Man]

Andrew,

Assuming this is a true and accurate record, why in your opinion did this proposal not meet a logical conclusion, after the application form draft?  What happened to the applicants requiring membership, or was membership just being considered as something to offer in the future?

[karlosdaze]

Assuming this is a true and accurate record, why in your opinion did this proposal not meet a logical conclusion, after the application form draft?  What happened to the applicants requiring membership, or was membership just being considered as something to offer in the future?

Are you on the board of the federation Fed-man? If so why are you asking Andrew these questions? Can you not find out the answer to these questions if you are on the board? If you were to ask these questions, would your position be at stake? Does the NFWC run a system of compliance with majority or goodbye?
It's all smelling very fishy!

[The_Fed_Man]

Are you on the board of the federation Fed-man?

If I disclose my identity, I will have to kill you

why are you asking Andrew these questions

Always good to get these things out in the open, after all don't you want to know?

Does the NFWC run a system of compliance with majority or goodbye?

Well the majority get the vote, as with most committees, how would you run it?

[STEVE71163]

Are you on the board of the federation Fed-man?

If I disclose my identity, I will have to kill you

Fed Man, When forum members are putting questions to you about the fed, If you are on the fed committee and want to be taken seriously as a professional why do you not disclose your identity as at least forum members know who they are speaking to

Steve Lowe

[Andrew]

Andrew,

Assuming this is a true and accurate record, why in your opinion did this proposal not meet a logical conclusion, after the application form draft?  What happened to the applicants requiring membership, or was membership just being considered as something to offer in the future

First of all may i remind Forum readers that telling a lie can take a form other than a direct statement!

I resent these words, "Assuming this is a true and accurate record" Your colleague Bryan Dolby has complained elsewhere in this Forum about others here making liabalous comments! Seeminly its OK for Executive Committee members to indulge in the practice though!

I am sure you know that the quotations i have made, from past Executive Committee minutes are a true, accurate and in context representation of the decisions made at the meetings they represent.  I think its a sad reflection of your personal ethics that you would rather raise a bogus question about my integrity and honesty, than admit to the committees mistreatment of a prospective member!

For those of you who have not served on the Executive Committee let me explain the backgroung to minutes such as the ones i quote from.  

When an Executive Meeting is in progress the General Secretary records details of what takes place. Prior to the next meeting these are printed out, and a copy sent to each committee member for study.  At the start of the next meeting the minutes are reveiwed to monitor progress of action points and to ensure their accuracy.  

When "Fed Man" writes, "Assuming this is a true and accurate record" there speaks a man who has been given a copy of the minutes for every meeting he has ever been to.  Presumably as a responsible member of the Executive Committee he files the minutes in his Federation work portfolio for future reference.  Even if he cant be bothered doing that, as i can well imagine, he still has access to copies of minutes storred elsewhere!

Regretfully "Fed Man" hides behind a cloak of anonymity, refusing to identify himself, so we dont know which of the meetings in question he attended - if any!  I take the veiw howver that if a person chooses to represent themself, as he appears to, as the personification of the Federation, "the Fed Man", then he has to accept the responsibily and the "flack" that goes with it!!

why in your opinion did this proposal not meet a logical conclusion, after the application form draft?  What happened to the applicants requiring membership, or was membership just being considered as something to offer in the future

For the benefit of readers i will comment on these questions!

why in your opinion did this proposal not meet a logical conclusion, after the application form draft?

The minutes quoted show i was the only one to create such a draft.  The General Secretary required a number of draft specemins to blend the best of each into one.  Others were never produced.  Procastination led to the proposal being side lined.

What happened to the applicants requiring membership

These were all attendees of the IWCA trade shows that i had met whilst in the USA.  What happened to them!  Well there wishes were disrespected and ignored!

or was membership just being considered as something to offer in the future

 well it wasnt for the past was it!

Andrew from Edu-Clean

[The_Fed_Man]

Andrew,

Woah........!!!!  I am not attacking your personal integrity & honesty, I am just trying to establish fact for the benefit of any who wish to join this debate.  Why the hostility??

Surely the way foward on this issue is through the correct channels at the Federation, not name calling on an email group.

My identity is immaterial, I am not hiding behind any cloak, nor am I insecure enough to need any prestige awarded as such, if any don't take me seriously because of this, then so be it.

I do respect many of your proposals but we're not going to get anywhere if tempers are raised and it all becomes a personal issue.

[karlosdaze]

OoooEeer - what have i started! I only wanted to get membership of the federation, and not 4 magazines for a 100 quid. By the way I was told that I could view this magazine on the website, yet it hasn't been changed since April.
Now Martin, oops Fed-man, if your a contract killer you will have to match up to a few other characters around here. I was only talking to "Jack the Kipper" this morning, and he's never heard of you?

why are you asking Andrew these questions

Always good to get these things out in the open, after all don't you want to know?

I've heard Andrews viewpoint both publicaly & privately...what are yours?

Does the NFWC run a system of compliance with majority or goodbye?

Well the majority get the vote, as with most committees, how would you run it?

I think from what I've heard so far, I'd stick a bomb in there, and start again
I would also have one spokesman for the federation, that could write accurately & coherently, and agree a viewpoint before posting.
When I applied, I thought I was given the brush-off also, especially when I was told I could join the IWCA by the NFMWC.
O.K. I'll get my coat now............

[The_Fed_Man]

Karl,

I've heard Andrews viewpoint both publicaly & privately...what are yours

I think European Membership would be a good thing, good for the Fed also.  I also do not know the details of the previous Fed applicants or the outcome, and was surprised to read what was posted.  If you know of any others that wish to join, why not get together and make a joint proposal, in writing would be best.

Nobody is going to change anything unless they get involved!

T.