[Sunshine Cleaning]

Load of rubbish.
That's all I'm going to say. :

I've worked next to HSE officers and around the police and no-ones ever said a word.

HSE officers on a building site dont work for the HSE but are representatives from the building company with regard to H&S.

Many are ignorant about or fed up with regualtions to the degree that they either let things go or simply know no better.

I can understand you using ladders on domestic work, but to use them on a building site puts yourself and the building company at risk.

When they do start getting stricter, building sites are where they will tighten up first.

[macleod]

okay a few of you need to try and keep up...

we all agree with the 3 points.
so what does this mean?

the WAHR/HSE says to do a risk assesment then use the safest method possible... the risk hierarchy has as a starting point not to work at height.

so this is my point you DONT need a NEW law to ban ladders for window cleaning, because THIS law has already done that!

for window cleaning, ladders are not banned but you just cant use them.

come on ladder boys wise up...you know im right.

[Sir Squeaky]

What's your problem?

Are you working for the HSE?
Or is your mate asking to do some investigating.

My guess is you're posing as a window cleaner on here to try and cause trouble for honest hard working people.

Rumbled you have I?

If so.....go away.

[AuRavelling79]

Bumper - Ladders are only banned if there is a practical alternative to using them for the particular job in hand.

[Fast 1 *]

Wfp users use all this to their advantage,hoping people use them rather than trad users.Its a shame there is this divide

[P®oPole™]

Bumper - Ladders are only banned if there is a practical alternative to using them for the particular job in hand.

Which is wfp, wait untill the exemption is up april 07.
However im not holding my breath, what exactly can they do, NOTHING!!

W.A.H.D IS A COMPLETE AND UTTER JOKE I LAUGH IN THE FACE OF IT, AND EUROPE FOR THAT MATTER

[mark f]

yep its a total pain, this country stinks! But when a window cleaner gets awarded 1.6 million after falling of his ladder on a house and his employer is sued because of not providing proper access equipment, im afraid we all better make the switch. (this happened recently).

  And when some prat of a window cleaner sues a house holder when he falls off cos some lawyer says he can. Then that could spell the end of domestic window cleaning cos they will do it them selves. Just like many are now doing thier decorating etc because of the extortionate prices involved with scaffolding etc.

 

[AuRavelling79]

Wfp users use all this to their advantage,hoping people use them rather than trad users.Its a shame there is this divide

Part of the reason for this is that many wfp'ers have invested in new kit, partially on the basis that the HSE stance on ladders was becoming law. (which it did in April 2005)

If a wfp'er tells a householder, in good faith, that in his opinion that having a window cleaner using a ladder on their windows is against HSE guidelines than that is only reasonable.

Cost is no excuse. A backpack set up - including an R/o can be self-built for hundreds of pounds. You can use wfp from your car. If a trad w/c refuses to use wfp then he/she must face both the economic and legal consquences of his decision.

I won't weep tears for trad. guys who won't - rather than can't - change.

(However, I do feel great sympathy for guys working for trad. bosses who value their lives so cheaply.)

[macleod]

my missus used to work for Kodak

i remember the fuss made by trad (film) photographers  against digital...

the nonsense said was, cant get the same results, it will never last blah blah whinge whinge

now let me see what did happen?

oh yeah, the Digital boys got all the work and the Trad film guys are... now up ladders cleaning windows!!

come on ladder boys wise up!

[P®oPole™]

come on ladder boys wise up!

Let them be, fair play to them there only earning a living, if they are pros and have all the right gear, pointers etc working first floor domestic stuff, what does it matter.

Commercial is a diffrent ball game, and cowboys should all be shot.

[Sir Squeaky]

come on ladder boys wise up!

We are wise.

That's why we don't want to waste our money.

Get back to your HSE job and off this forum you politically correct fool.

[AuRavelling79]

come on ladder boys wise up!

We are wise.

That's why we don't want to waste our money.

Get back to your HSE job and off this forum you politically correct fool.

The last resort of someone who cannot refute argument logically is personal abuse. It is born out of fear. 

[Sir Squeaky]

Not another quote from the bible Malc.... :

I have no logical argument?
Like I said, HSE have no problem with ladder users.
I've found out first hand.

Can't you see what this prat is up to?

Why support him when he's just trying to cause trouble?

[AuRavelling79]

Not another quote from the bible Malc.... :

I have no logical argument?
Like I said, HSE have no problem with ladder users.
I've found out first hand.

Can't you see what this prat is up to?

Why support him when he's just trying to cause trouble?

I just don't see him as causing trouble, Squeaky and I see no merit in "shouting" abuse at him for his stated views. It demeans any logical argument you may have.

[Moderator David@stives]

Ladders are not banned , nor is there any legislation due to ban them.

Window cleaners can still use ladders to clean windows.

The hse would like all methods to be considered first and the use of ladders as a last resort.

If using ladders they must be used safely and the same as any method a risk assessment should be done, even wfp carries risks of endangering staff and the public.

If you want clarification investigate the hse site and dont just take someones personal opinion as the definative word.

Dave

[AuRavelling79]

The hse would like all methods to be considered first and the use of ladders as a last resort.


Dave

Dave, when you look at a window on your round David, and a practical alternative to a ladder can be found to clean it and you choose not to use that practical alternative but to use a ladder - are you not in breach of HSE regs?

[Moderator David@stives]

Malc

the answer is no , the hse accepts that there are many many reasons why you chose to use the ladder.

Have you considered if the customer does not want a wfp used on there property or the results from wfp are not suitable for the customer ?

wfp is a very good tool in fact excellent but if i wanted to be 100% sure a window is clean, then the only way is to get up close and personal to that window.

Did you see the recent case where a window cleaner fell on one of prince Charles properties , well that was only early this year, and dont you think Charlie has to be on the ball with the HSE.

You have to ask why was the window cleaner using ladders ?

simple wfp is not allowed on there windows


To satisfy yourself you should fully investigate the HSE site

Dave

Dave

[AuRavelling79]

David - I didn't mention wfp in my last post - I simply asked that if you used a ladder when there was a practical alternative (whatever that might be) then would you be in breach of the regs?

[P®oPole™]

  WHAT A LOAD OF CODSWALLOP!!!!!


99% OF WINDOWS LADDERS CAN GET, WFP CAN GET THERE TOO

THERES A CLAUSE, WHAT IF YOU HAVENT GOT WFP???

YOUR EXTENSION POLE WILL DO A CRAP JOB, OH IVE DECIDED TO USE MY LADDER, THATS WITHING THE LAW.

BASICALLY IF YOU HAVENT GOT A WFP SYSTEM NO ONE CAN SAY ANYTHING.......... UNLESS YOU HAVE AN ACCIDENT THEN YOU WILL GET BENT OVER AND H.S WOULD GO TO WORK ON YOUR ASS!!!!!!!!

W.A.H.R HAHAHAHAHA DO YOU KNOW WHEN APRIL THE 6TH CAME  LAST YEAR I ACTUALLY THOUGH I WOULD HAVE TO STOP WORKING LOL  CANT WAIT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS APRIL 07

EUROPE

[AuRavelling79]

And on the right wing of the Cleanitup Political Party we bring you - in ascending order - Adolf Hitler (Leader), Genghis Khan (Minister of War) and ProPole (Foreign Secretary)