[Moderator David@stives]

Malc

The answer is still No

Dave

[Pj]

The Health and Safety Executive is constantly reviewing the Working At Heights Directive.

Do try to bear in mind that the present Working At Heights Regulations contain numerous references, not to the banning of ladders, but rather their safe use.

They are all open documents for intelligent tradesmen to reference.

If all you do is rant and rave, either in favour of banning ladders, or in support of ladders, you just get lost in cat calling arguments.

If it's been raining and it's stopped you working today, I can understand you are all a little upset, but why resort to insulting one another on here?

Get your facts right!  It's not that hard.  Just work safe and follow the safety guidelines as much as is practical.

[AuRavelling79]

Get your facts right!  It's not that hard.  Just work safe and follow the safety guidelines as much as is practical.

Thanks for that alternatively practical bit of advice PJ!

And Dave - I don't understand how you're reading the regs that way at all!

[P®oPole™]

 

[Pj]

Not every windowcleaning issue with a client is to do with working at heights.

On certain buildings there are preservation issues.  Remember Purified water is capable of changing the colour of weathered stone, if used regularly the change will be permanent!  breaching a very different regulation.  This would apply to a number of Royal Residences, which train staff to comply strictly with the current H&S directives

There are other issues too.

[Pj]

A well thought out response!

[Sir Squeaky]

 

[P®oPole™]

A well thought out response!

A sarcastic grumpy old man responce

[Pj]

Clarification was obviously needed.  Not in the least bit grumpy, but yes, older.

[rosskesava]

The law says that you must consider alternatives. If a window cleaner then considers that to clean the windows a ladder is considered the best means then they've complied with the WAHL's. The wording is 'consider an alternative' for short duration work. Not 'must use'. If, when working for a company, the company consider the risk using a ladder is too great, then that has to be followed. For private property, the householder is not expected to know what is safe and what is not, so the onus is on the window cleaner and a private house holder is not liable for any accidents because of that fact unless the risk was a known fact before hand to the householder.

Provided the height is under 9m and there is some type of safety device for the ladder even if it's rubber feet on the ladder, then that is ok. ( having said that, I'm not certain if it's over 6m on an unsecured ladder)

Provided a risk assessment has been done, which for a specific private property does not have to be written, a written generic risk assessment is good enough, and provided the person undertaking the work has an understanding of the risks involved, then the WAHL's have been complied with.

As Dave says above, ladders are not banned and the thing about choosing the best method, the best method would to not do them by any method available. Then there is zero risk. Risk is an accepted part of working. Reducing the risk, and thus reducing accidents, is what the WAHL's are about.

Cheers

[D.Salkeld_Ltd]

Use Your WFP, use your ladder, use what you like but most of all:
USE YOUR HEAD - BE CAREFUL AND SAFE!!
After 20 odd years and a few scars we should know what we are doing and don't need no bloody university pen pushers in offices to tell us our trade!!!!!

David

There thats my rant over.

I,m of to bed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pj]

There is no 'minimum' safe height for unsecured ladders.
The principle is;  all working above ground level increases risks. 

[rosskesava]

Pj

Most deaths occur from falls under 3m.

The WAHL's were aimed more at the construction industry than any other trade as the greatest amount of deaths/injuries from falls at height occur in that trade. Pro rata, window cleaning has a much, much better track record although with some of the idiots I see cleaning windows with ladders, I do wonder.

Anyway, that was not the point I was making. The point was as per the heading, 'HSE BAN LADDERS'.

I totally agree with what you wrote though and with David's rant.

[Pat Purcell]

http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm     this is a US study but the second section deals with accidents , it would appear that you have a better chance of dying from a fall at ground level over your lifetime than you have of dying from a fall from a ladder or scaffold.......that does it im never getting off my ladder again

[rosskesava]

I'm going to take my ladder to bed with me and sleep on it.  :

[gerrystyles]

Check it out www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/misc613.pdf

you will see that the federation are working with hse to help w/c

[Pat Purcell]

Check it out www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/misc613.pdf

you will see that the federation are working with hse to help w/c

              well done thats a fair and rational set of guidelines for safe ladder use

[Sunshine Cleaning]

Ok so you decide that ladders will be used.

Qustion: What device do you use in addition to make it safer?
Question: Do you use it on ALL ladder climbs?

[Sir Squeaky]

What safety devices do you use with your pole?

[windows_chepstow]

Check it out www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/misc613.pdf

Misc 613 has been superceded by the WAHD, therefore is no longer relevant.