[P®oPole™]

I allways work in compliance with W.A.H.R. But whos going to stop joe bloggs two doors down replacing the gutters or the odd job man fixing an outside light across the road, who would stop them??? No one would!!

Its only there so they can point fingers and blame someone when it goes wrong. Obviously site work, commercial work and the construction industry has and will feel it more over the comming years but there is no way they could stop everyone in this country.

If its ilegal shall I call 999 tommorow when I see someone on a ladder? what a joke.

[Sir Squeaky]

Well said.
It's so blown out of proportion.

Hey look, I agreed with PooPole.

[Paul Coleman]

ok you win... i didnt want this to go down the route of ladders versus wfp....

but thats why i rarely post on this site any more...

i care about window cleaning and it eanrs me a good wage.

i win work every week from window cleaners who say that the Law is [to quote shinner] rubbish...

just casue my neighbour is a nice bloke doesnt mean he can drive his car in a reckless manner, and its the same with window cleaning, just cause the window cleaner is a nice bloke or been cleaning the windows for 20 years doesnt mean he should be reckless and allowed to continue working... that is rubbish!


by the way notice that i didnt mention the WAHR  rather i said this is about Safety.

Perhaps you need to re-read what I wrote.  I merely stated that the best anti-slip device, of the items I had with me, for that particular surface, was a heavy duty oven cloth.  For that particular surface, in the absence of eyebolts or a means of tieing the base of the ladder, I used something of "equivalent effectiveness" - and it was a very good method too.  I even tested a Rojak and found it to be less effective.  Eyebolts high up on the wall would have been useless anyway as the ladder would have slipped before I got up there if I had no other means of footing it.  I had a couple of near misses early on in my career.  I bet I'm more safety concious than most window cleaners.
Although I feel that the law is excessive, I would not call it rubbish.  Like a lot of laws (speed limits being a typical scenario) the safety regs have been dumbed down to the lowest common denominator - i.e. the lawmakers start with the assumption that we are all totally ignorant about safety on the basis that this is true of maybe 1% of window cleaners.  I would have preferred compulsory ladder training rather than an insistence that ladders only be used as a very last resort.  Rather than saying that the law is rubbish, I merely say that it's too inflexible.

[windows_chepstow]

...This means nothing absoultly nothing, you could use a screwed up scrim under my ladder feet and it counts it...

 ProPole

I agree with ProPoles statement.  The rules are 'wishy-washy' and without enforcement they're a waste of time.

But, WAHD aside, how many window cleaners do you know that don't even have feet on their ladders?  Having serviceable feet on your ladders surely should be the most basic of safety devices.

You see these window cleaners driving about with ladders secured to their vehicles with what looks like old bits of string, and bent aluminium where the feet should be.

I've seen two window cleaners like this, this week.

It's not like the ladder feet are worn; they're none existant; just bent alluminium where they should be.

Surely they can afford a serviceable set of ladders; one of their basic tools?

[Paul Coleman]

ok you win... i didnt want this to go down the route of ladders versus wfp....

but thats why i rarely post on this site any more...

i care about window cleaning and it eanrs me a good wage.

i win work every week from window cleaners who say that the Law is [to quote shinner] rubbish...

just casue my neighbour is a nice bloke doesnt mean he can drive his car in a reckless manner, and its the same with window cleaning, just cause the window cleaner is a nice bloke or been cleaning the windows for 20 years doesnt mean he should be reckless and allowed to continue working... that is rubbish!


by the way notice that i didnt mention the WAHR  rather i said this is about Safety.

I've only just realised where you got confused.  It was Propole who said WAHR is rubbish - not me.  I did quote his text in my post when replying to him so it looks like you inadvertently attributed Propole's words to me.  Easy mistake to make I suppose.

[P®oPole™]

Doesnt matter shiner,

Dont know what hes on about there, he says one thing and means another. He mentioned about ladders not being footed and if thats not W.A.H.R I dont know what is, hes has contradicted himself.

ProPole

[mark dew]

question.
can i notify the local council? HSE? jeremy paxman?

You could but why bother. All you're going to do is wind people up.
Even better, take a deep breathe, relax and concentrate on your own life.
Stress ain't good for the soul.

Have a long life

mark

[DaveWilkinson]

Alot of good arguments from both sides of the fence, what would concern me more is, if or when this guy falls off his ladder it just adds more weight for the laws to be tightened up even further and that affects everyone,

Also next time you start complaining about insurance premiums you can thank the guys like this who help contribute to this trade being classed as the most dangerous in the uk.

As for undercutting/working for the home - not a chance with a attitude like that, i can see them being great payers....not

[AuRavelling79]

question.

if you know that a well known company that has a number of Residential Homes has their windows cleaned at least on 1 property unsafely (ladders not footed, not secured, etc etc) then what would you do as a 'professional' window cleaner?

i telephoned this company to speak to H&S, was put through to their Head of Properties who told me (and i am not kidding) that they will continue using this window cleaner until there is an accident and anyway that they were not liable!

i telephone the House Manger who said they this window cleaning company accept the risks and are covered by their insurance!

this is not ladders versus wfp. this is safe versus not safe. so please dont change the subject.

what would you do?

can i notify the local council? HSE? jeremy paxman?

mac

It depends....what is your motive? Generally I would say let 'em get on with it and it's not your problem, but.....

What if you have genuine concerns that an employee (youngster, foreigner who does not know what his "rights" are, etc) of a "well known" firm is "forced" by economic circumstances and pressure from his employer to work in that way?

or..

What if you have quoted against this company and you genuinely beleive they are mis-representing you by saying in effect "What that guy told you about HSE is rubbish" - and thus, in your opinion putting you at a disadvantage by cutting safety corners?

It's your conscience, do as you think fit. If you decide to contact anyone perhaps try the HSE and talk about a hypothetical situation, then post here, it will be interesting!

[KJG]

I'd grass him up then nick his round and try it on with his missus while he's inside

[windows_chepstow]

Sarah has uploaded a 'Commercial Mailshot' that informs commercial companies of the risks of contracting a WC who uses ladders as their first choice of access in the Documents to Upload section.

It basically begins with a statement that goes along the lines of 'A big company was recently fined thousands of pounds after a window cleaner fell from his ladders while cleaning their premises and is brain damaged for the rest of his life'

It then goes on to explain about 'your' company and asks if they would like a quote from 'you'.

It's very good.

Why not use this letter?

[Pat Purcell]

I find it hard to believe that someone would go to the extreme of selling out another window cleaner to the authorities, i have quite a bit of competition over here some working within the rules and some without but i would never consider doing that if for no other reason self preservation,If it ever got out (and you know how good the government are at keeping things on the qt)i would expect at the very least to get my butt kicked and worse every time i did something even the smallest little thing outside of the rules i would be looking over my shoulder to see whos watching, and any body who says that they do everything within the rules probably hasnt read the fine print

[abacus]

Hi mac

I ll put my neck on the the block

I agree with you up to a point I try hard to conform to safty regs I probably break some rule every day though

the regs were brought in for this very reason that some people just dont care about the safety of those who work for them in any way, they would probably be the first to shout if one of thier own where to be treated in the same way,  however you have notified the the people concerned you should warn the actual wc concerned but if they persist unlesss you think that there is a real risk to inicent people I would not go as fsr as reporting them

I am suprised that a lot of people feel its none of thier business you are really not doing any servce to them you would not let any drive a car you Knew had no brakes its not a kindness to let people play fast and loose with others lives or even thier own
it is true however that you are unlikely to get thanks for it  a prophet is not welcomed in his own town

It is not worth the stress mac, try to help but if they dont want it let them be at least your children wont lose thier father for the sake of a £2.00 window do to others ect mac at least you care

best regards grant

[bluesteve]

trev,
 do you work in whitchurch?

Yes, why do you ask?

i ve always wondered who the other wfper is in whitchurch,ive a few houses there .

[Pj]

No, I'm not a grass.

But I have been called a Pampas before, so I guess I am!

[gerrystyles]

Under Regulation 3 of the Management of Health & Safety at Work Regulations 1999 it is every employers and self employed persons responsibility to ensure a suitable and sufficient risk assesment has been carried out. This duty is also applicable within the WAHR. It is irresponsible of the company concerned to say they are not bothered as it is also their duty to ensure that persons working at their premises are working safely.

It is not a matter of being a grass or undercutting others - IT IS A MATTER OF PROTECTING LIVES.

Check out the HSE website for the stats on injuries from falls from height

[groundhog]

Your a disgrace Macleod   mind your own business and get a life!!!!!!!!

[P®oPole™]

what rock have u been hiding under girlhog?

[groundhog]

I have been busy Arspole, not that its got anything to do with you!!!!  But now I am back so watch out 

[Sir Squeaky]

Welcome back Mr.G-Hog!

You've been needed around here.....