[Scrimble]

Hi, after starting window cleaning in august i now have a customer base of just over 20 customers and £170 of work every 4 weeks! i'm slowly getting there,

I am however worried sometimes about being on a ladder and climbing to get to windows i.e on a ledge. I do want a WFP system because of this but atm cannot afford this, does it take a lot for a ladder to slip or a big gust of wind to knock you off your ladders? i'm not worried so much that i am going to give up but i'm worried about falling off my ladders sometimes.

Mark.

[petski2]

Hi Mark.
This is a question which will get a different answer from everyone,simply because each person will only draw on their own experience of ladders.
for what its worth heres mine:
I started in 2003 with ladders and an escort estate.
I packed in my job (£18500 per year) WOW :
After a few months building my round as we had no savings it soon dawned on me that I was going to have to speculate to accumulate.
On the very same day I decided this I was cleaning an upstairs window when the ladder kicked out and I came crashing down from about 20ft.
I must point out here that any sane person wouldnt have used the ladders as it was a damp morning and the floor was yorkshire stone covered in moss. :
unbelievably I got off with a cracked bone in elbow and about 3 million bruises.
This gave me the kick up the arse (literally) to go wfp.
I got a loan for £11000 to get all my equipment and also pay my wages for a good few months.
This in itself gives you the determination to succeed otherwise how else would I pay off the loan.
It isnt by luck that all this has paid off its by hard graft and determination.
I know for a fact that there are many cleaners on here who have used ladders for years with no problems and will continue to do so.But I also know that once you lose your confidence on them a days work becomes a real test.
To conclude:
We can only draw from our own experience,a ladder can always be dangerous if not treated with respect.
I spent ages on this forum saying I couldnt afford wfp:UNTIL I HAD THE FALL.
To me it was fate as I know I wouldnt be earning what I do now if I was still trad.
Hope this helps mate.

[brett walker]

Safety at all times using ladders, if youre worried be extra careful its like anything used correctly you'll be fine.
There are many window cleaners on this forum that have been going for years on ladders and will tell you the same, i am wfp i only use my ladders 3 or 4 times a month and with using it that little and not using it on a daily basis it seems to be more nerve wrecking.

Ladders are like anything in life if abused you will suffer the consequences the same goes for wfp accidents can also occur, just so this dont turn out to be ladder v's wfp its all down to due care and attention

Brett.

[Sir Squeaky]

Don't take chances and you'll be fine, same as crossing the road.

I've been up and down ladders for over 9 years and not so much as a slight scare.

[matt]

cannot afford WFP

get down the DIY route, 500 ish quid and your setup

e.mail me for a link to explain all

[jeff1]

If you can't go the wfp route just yet, and you must work from ladders then :-

Make sure you work at a Comfortable position,  not to close to the glass, there is some types of flooring that when wet is lethal ie:- welsh slate and a few others,
never take a chance when wet, skip the property until its dry.
On a breezy day if you can, hold onto the frame of an open window, if windows closed keep hold of the ledge, if the wind gusts when your up a ladder lean as far as you can into the window and hold the ledge, if its a windy day Stay at home.
Don't attempt to stretch to high or to wide, adjust your ladder to the best hight and move your ladder rather than stretch.
Never go up a wobbley or unstable ladder,
Never prop your ladders against guttering.
Never leave your ladders up whilst unattended even for a minute, Lay them down.
Don't take risks, its never worth a couple of quid.
Most of all Gain confidence and work safely.

[Shine, glasgow!]

I went down to my local business start-up initiative, which since i was under 30, after writing a business plan where happy to line my pockets with 1000 pounds. I see your 21, so find out if there is anything like that. They do low interest loans too.
I then got a shurflo back pack (do search) 200+quid, trolley 30, unger pole 90, brush 10, water containers free from ind est, di vessel and resin 120? (live in scotland, water is pure already, so don't need RO!), pipe, this and that, 600 quid probably in all (like Matt, but less diy building involved, though pretty straight forward if you get over sourcing the components i suppose), all out of the back (and side!) of a VW polo.
Setting up is a hassel, but once rolling...
A lone for 600 would be what, less than 15 quid a week for a year? nothing! from my experience i recommend it, its a doddle with a pole, quick, and i think less demeening that 'up-close cleaning'. More 'pro tool'!? (not often mentioned in wfp, trad debate?)
anyway, i digress!, so what i say is, would recommend doing it if you don't mind getting a loan or try out local business initiatives.

Ben

added later:
to address the topic better, i should say i started on ladders, but soon after got wfp afterwards, and glad i did so (early on). wasn't too keen up em really like yourself

[chris@c.m.s]

Don't take chances and you'll be fine, same as crossing the road.

I've been up and down ladders for over 9 years and not so much as a slight scare.

Squeeky can you honestly say in 9 years you have never had an omg nearly went moment?

[chris@c.m.s]

Mark I think when starting up its easy to pick up work that others dont want ie windows that you need to stretch yourself for while on the second top wrung  maybe you could do them easier with a point ladder but most starting out cant afford to pay out for one, so for those windows you have a choice, you drop then, try a point ladder, or go wfp. I still havent got myself a double point yet but if I were to do it again I would have got one from the outset.       

[poleman]

What with the winter just round the corner and mossy and slippery ground, you should realy be looking at ladder stabilisers, stand off etc, as you are new to window cleaning I hope what has been posted here might save you one day, the best advice I can give DONT RUSH & OVER REACH please stay safe

Andy

[Fast 1 *]

the ladders are not the problem,its the inexperienced people using them.This will no doubt turn into a wfp versus ladder debate.Since a young age,i have used ladders,and have not had any problems.I have no intention of using a water fed pole system because i actually care about the job i am doing.Each to there own.

[JM123]

This will no doubt turn into a wfp versus ladder debate.Since a young age,i have used ladders,and have not had any problems.I have no intention of using a water fed pole system because i actually care about the job i am doing.Each to there own.

So I take it from that wfpers don't care about the job they do?  I honestly think some trad guys in here are jealous - and some of you seem to forget that most wfpers started out trad - we just found something that does a faster BETTER job. 

Faster, safer, better - I still use trad for some work but wfp is the way to go.

[chris@c.m.s]

the ladders are not the problem,its the inexperienced people using them.This will no doubt turn into a wfp versus ladder debate.Since a young age,i have used ladders,and have not had any problems.I have no intention of using a water fed pole system because i actually care about the job i am doing.Each to there own.

I've been walking up and downstairs from a very young age, so does that meen if a do fall slip or misjudge a step that I am inexperianced? Sorry but climbing a ladder has risks even if it is something you do every day. and no I'm not advocating wfp as the complete answer because sometimes I'd rather work from a ladder.  

[Ian_Giles]

Stick with ladder advice only please, any further mention of WFP will get that post deleted.
Those that have already mentioned it will be left, but any further mention of it will be deleted!!
This thread is not going to be allowed to descend into the usual debate!!


                                                        Ian

[s.hughes]

You will get used to ladders it just takes time. 1st time I used one I only climbed to a 1st floor window and I thought that was high.
Make sure you have a comfortable ladder to use, this is important. I bought a really expensive trade ladder which I used once and found it too heavy. Now I use a wickes double 4 metre which is really light and I just replace it every 3 - 5 years

Steve

[windows_chepstow]

the ladders are not the problem,its the inexperienced people using them.

It was raining here yesturday morning and I had to clean a few windows above a flat roof with a set of A Frames.  This flat roof is part of a hotel; much higher than the standard type of flat roof you get on houses.

Anyway, after I finished, going down the ladder one-handed, since my other hand was holding the A-Frames; I slipped on a wet rung and nearly had a nasty accident; especially since I only had one hand to stop me!

No matter how experienced or carefull you are; you can't eliminate the risk 100% using ladders.

Here's some good information about working at height:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/falls/

[Paul Coleman]

the ladders are not the problem,its the inexperienced people using them.

It was raining here yesturday morning and I had to clean a few windows above a flat roof with a set of A Frames.  This flat roof is part of a hotel; much higher than the standard type of flat roof you get on houses.

Anyway, after I finished, going down the ladder one-handed, since my other hand was holding the A-Frames; I slipped on a wet rung and nearly had a nasty accident; especially since I only had one hand to stop me!

No matter how experienced or carefull you are; you can't eliminate the risk 100% using ladders.

Here's some good information about working at height:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/falls/

Tosh.
I've slipped on rungs before - though got away with it.
If you are using a ladder, be sure that you are wearing appropriate footwear.  There is a British Standard (BS****) for slip resistant footwear.  They can be heavier to wear and can pick up debris (unlike some trainers) but I never slipped on a wet rung again after starting to use them.  One note of caution though: mud can stick to them more than to trainers and mud on the soles can negate the benefits of slip resistant footwear.
Sorry I can't recall the BS number for slip resistance but a search on the net for work footwear should reveal all.

[windows_chepstow]

If you are using a ladder, be sure that you are wearing appropriate footwear.  There is a British Standard (BS****) for slip resistant footwear. 

Cheers Shiner,

I'll have a look for them; however the boots I wear are work boots; sort of walking boot style; good tread too.

[Sir Squeaky]

Don't take chances and you'll be fine, same as crossing the road.

I've been up and down ladders for over 9 years and not so much as a slight scare.

Squeeky can you honestly say in 9 years you have never had an omg nearly went moment?

I've overstretched on a 5ft pointer and jumped off a few times.

[williamx]

If you are going to use ladders see if the local fire brigade will give you some safety pointers or show you how to use them.

Also take your time and concentrate on what you are doing and what is happening around you when you are on ladders. 

If you find that you are not earning enough instead of rushing to do the job faster and maybe having a accident, increase you prices instead.

Also take out some form of insurance in case you do hurt yourself, remember being self employed means that you don't get sick benefits.