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Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #220 on: September 21, 2006, 11:51:30 pm »
WFP hoses are on the ground, anyone tripping over it is not going to fall very far.
Yeah, but you're missing the point.

You're endangering others.
I've watched polers drag hoses across pavements and nearly bash people in the face with the end of the pole. Also my mrs slipped in a wet doorway, so I've had my ear bent about it firsthand.

Peter Fogwill

  • Posts: 1415
Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #221 on: September 22, 2006, 12:00:54 am »
I've had a blind man walk into my ladder and bruised his face.  I have also seen a guy I was working with drop his applicator on a mans head in a busy street, just as well it was not his squeegee.  A little girl in my sons class at school lost her dad due to a ladder flying off a van and hitting him while driving his motorbike.  Like I said accidents happen.

Peter Fogwill

rosskesava

Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #222 on: September 22, 2006, 12:05:27 am »
Hi Peter

Lets just agree to not agree. Yeah?

Ok. Windows can be done in 10 seconds with wfp just like the video clip.

W/c's fall and die from ladders all the time.

What you are selling does not have a bearing on what you post.

I agree with you 100%.

I'm an idiot who runs a business and has got it all wrong.

Something that cannot be proved can be proved if the person posting says so.

I agree.

I agree 500%.

I've got bored with this. I know what is what.

Lucrative customers? Insurance purposes? Ladders not allowed. Yup. That is so. Yes. Sure. Absolutely.

Anyone who has dealings with companies for real knows a bluff when they read one.

Yes, accidents happen. Don't ever drive a car in that case. In fact, don't ever do anything.

Good luck to you. 

Peter Fogwill

  • Posts: 1415
Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #223 on: September 22, 2006, 12:12:32 am »
Hi Peter

Lets just agree to not agree. Yeah?

Yes no problem.

Quote

Ok. Windows can be done in 10 seconds with wfp just like the video clip.

W/c's fall and die from ladders all the time.

What you are selling does not have a bearing on what you post.

I agree with you 100%.

I'm an idiot who runs a business and has got it all wrong.

Something that cannot be proved can be proved if the person posting says so.

I agree.

I agree 500%.

I've got bored with this. I know what is what.

Lucrative customers? Insurance purposes? Ladders not allowed. Yup. That is so. Yes. Sure. Absolutely.

Anyone who has dealing with companies for real knows a bluff when they read one.

Yes, accidents happen. Don't ever drive a car in that case. In fact, don't ever do anything.

Good luck to you. 


I could prove it.

Your playing the sarcasm card now, what next. 

I am getting a bit bored with it as well.

Peter Fogwill

rosskesava

Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #224 on: September 22, 2006, 12:17:34 am »
Ok.

We're both bored with it.

Yes, unusually for me I was playing the sarcasm card but you were playing the emotional one.

Lets just agree to disagree? Yeah?

Seriously though, the 'good luck to you' was genuine.

Cheers

captain lard

  • Posts: 304
Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #225 on: September 22, 2006, 12:28:32 am »
For what its worth rosskesava I think you have spoken a lot of sense on this thread and you have been a credit to the forum.

Peter Fogwill

  • Posts: 1415
Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #226 on: September 22, 2006, 12:33:12 am »
Ok.

We're both bored with it.

Yes, unusually for me I was playing the sarcasm card but you were playing the emotional one.

Lets just agree to disagree? Yeah?

Seriously though, the 'good luck to you' was genuine.

Cheers

Thanks for that.

Anyway I think the thread has come to an end, well as far as I am concerned it has.

On a closing note I would just like to remind you that I was drawn into this for reasons I have stated earlier. I didn't start the post.   I don't normally post on here for the reason that I do sell equipment, and if you look through my posts you will see that I normally try and give advice without any ulterior motive.  With this thread I have been drawn in, and one post led to another.  I have answered all post truthfully the way I see it, and not just because I sell equipment.  Believe me there was lots more productive ways to sell WFP equipment than spending hours on here.

Anyway good luck to you as well,

Peter Fogwill

rosskesava

Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #227 on: September 22, 2006, 12:53:29 am »
It has been a thread that has drawn in opposing views.

It has reached it's end.

Unusual though. Most just die don't they?

Tomorrow is a new day. Thanks for the good wishes and I can only agree that most of your postings have been to help. Strange how things go isn't it?

Yup. The end. Good arguement though.

Cheers

james cairns

Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #228 on: September 22, 2006, 05:34:06 am »
guys I have read this thread with great interest and seen it develop in different directions, but the one issue  that stuck in my mind out of all of it was squeaky


he is correct, these hoses are a danger to the public, and have given me great concern, ok commercial and large domestic you have the time to sign the area and cone everywhere, but on regular domestic streets I do worry about young kids and old people floating about, while you are around the back of the house


before a ladder was a danger to yourself now a hose is a danger to everyone
as we buy longer distance microbore to stop moving the vehicle as much the risk increases, and it is only a matter of time as to weather this method will be allowed to be used on domestic streets

I know this has hijacked the original post, but as I said this was the one issue out of all the posts that stood out from the whole thread

jinky

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2986
Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #229 on: September 22, 2006, 06:21:00 am »
Phew! :-\
I almost feel guilty for starting this thread ;D

Ross makes a good point about people making the claim of how fast this or that is when it is only an isolated example and isn't indicative of what the average window cleaner can realistically hope to achieve.
There have been occasions, and my starting this thread of the way I have is I suppose an example, when I have 'bigged up' just how quick WFP can be.

But to counter that I am also constantly citing examples of what the average window cleaner can and should hope to be able to achieve with either method.

I've quoted the 'average' window more times than I can think.

Done trad, your average, reasonably accomplished window cleaner will take 90 seconds to clean the 'average' window.
Done WFP this 'average' window should take you 40 seconds

This isn't a window that hasn't been cleaned in donkey's years.

It isn't covered in bird poo (not many are)

It is your bog standard, regular clean window done monthly.

Those two figures are your benchmark.

The average window is (as I described early, but will do again) about 5 or 6 feet wide and about 4 feet tall.
It will have one narrow opening light above a fairly wide fixed pane.
To the side is the taller opening pane.
This is your standard casement window.

David@St Ives mentioned in another thread that he timed himself at (I think!) 45 seconds for a set of patio doors......bah! I am going to have to open the forum in another window to check that now!

Slightly wrong!

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=25369.msg191202#msg191202

Her is what David posted.

an

I have just done some timing

here goes

All done by trad

Set of patio doors  55 secs

Window with 2 panes 2' * 3'   35 secs

All included a touch of wiping , no window ledges were touched during these tests.

Dave

I agree totally with his findings.

and using those two examples I reckon the vast majority of us will be quite close to those times too.

I always use the example of a standard casement window though, it is fairly generic and all of us know the window I'm talking about.

On that standard casement window, the 90 seconds trad or 40 seconds WFP will still take effort to achieve, it will still take skill to get a good result in those times.

but for any Newbie to either method, that is your benchmark.
That is what you can reasonably hope to achieve.

your average semi done trad will take you about 20 minutes.

done WFP it will take you about 15 minutes.


I think it is petty to carp on about, 'Ah, but what about an old lady tripping over your hose, breaking her hip and dying in hospital.'

There is the potential for this kind of accident to happen, but the likelihood is unlikely in the extreme.
Across the board (all trades and situations) there are thousands of ladder related accidents every single year.
where safety is concerned there really is no comparison between ladders or WFP, such arguments are total non starters.
Ladders are inherently dangerous.
A hosepipe isn't.

Now for me, safety wasn't the main reason for getting into WFP, though it did come into it.
The older I got, the more aware I became of the risks involved in climbing ladders, and of the consequences if things go wrong (for your health)
I was on the verge of packing in window cleaning, after 30 years of climbing ladders I'd had enough, I was 47 years old and I didn't want to be climbing the bloody things when I was 74 years olds (I'll never be able to 'afford' to retire, my pension sucks)

Good idea for a separate thread that....."What was your true underlying reason for taking up WFP?"

Mmmm.....Time for work, but maybe I'll start that one up when I get home!

Ian

Just read Jinky's post......Disagree, a hose across 6ft of pavement is rarely going to be a real risk!!
No time to say more!
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

james cairns

Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #230 on: September 22, 2006, 06:36:14 am »
Ian you say hoses across six feet of pavement

why do suppliers sell a 100 metres on a reel if you are only going to use six feet


jinky

groundhog

Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #231 on: September 22, 2006, 08:09:12 am »
Ian my reason for taking up wfp was because I listened to and believed all the hype eg your last post! :o But I quickly found out that is just what it is- hype!  There was a piece on the news about a year or so ago, when there was lots of talk about ladder bans, I don't know if you saw it or not but they had a trad window cleaner and a wfp guy, they challenged them to clean an equal number of windows on the bbc studios. Guess what the trad guy was about twice as quick as the wfp guy!  ;D

Don't listen to the hype! ;)

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #232 on: September 22, 2006, 08:10:38 am »
Just read Jinky's post......Disagree, a hose across 6ft of pavement is rarely going to be a real risk!!
No time to say more!
Sorry, but that's just plain wrong.
Being a moderator doesn't make you right, and people shouldn't take your word as the final one.
It's just massively biased, and in this case incorrect.

There's plenty of comparisons in safety matters between the two methods.
It's just that I don't endanger others.

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #233 on: September 22, 2006, 08:11:43 am »
Ian my reason for taking up wfp was because I listened to and believed all the hype eg your last post! :o But I quickly found out that is just what it is- hype!  There was a piece on the news about a year or so ago, when there was lots of talk about ladder bans, I don't know if you saw it or not but they had a trad window cleaner and a wfp guy, they challenged them to clean an equal number of windows on the bbc studios. Guess what the trad guy was about twice as quick as the wfp guy!  ;D

Don't listen to the hype! ;)
...and they also said "Unfortunately it means windows won't be able to be cleaned so well now"

Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #234 on: September 22, 2006, 09:12:00 am »
...and they also said "Unfortunately it means windows won't be able to be cleaned so well now"

But you've got to admit that WFP is faster though! ;D

groundhog

Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #235 on: September 22, 2006, 02:49:46 pm »
Err No ;D

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25140
Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #236 on: September 22, 2006, 09:00:07 pm »


but on regular domestic streets I do worry about young kids and old people floating about, while you are around the back of the house


jinky

If they're "floating around" then they won't trip over the hose will they? ;D
It's a game of three halves!

neil100

  • Posts: 1137
Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #237 on: September 22, 2006, 10:13:13 pm »
Oh dear Oh dear lets try to slag off wfp. Hoses theres a good one, next I am going to pick up Tommorws Daily with the Headline.

OLD LADY STRANGLED BY YELLOW HOSE

The wfp operator tried to come to her aid but he tripped over the hose and Knocked himself Unconscious.

Come on get real. More people are going to fall over uneven pavements then mobile hoses.

Has for speed wfp is faster on any house. I would beat hands down any trad wc on any property. FACT.

Some of us have got it and some of us havent.

Nel.

Nel.

james cairns

Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #238 on: September 22, 2006, 10:21:12 pm »
hose is thicker than an uneven pavement

jinky

Moderator David@stives

  • Posts: 8829
Re: How quick is WFP???...take a look and see!
« Reply #239 on: September 22, 2006, 10:24:19 pm »
This is now officially the biggest post ever on Cleanitup about window cleaning.