[C Senor]

Wow, you guys like to 'debate'

I've chipped in a bit on this one as i am curious about WFP. But i'm afraid that i haven't learned anything from this post except the lengths people will go to to prove some sort of point.

I am in total agreement with Ross, i see this as a poor sales pitch and it has put me off WFP more than it has added to my curiosity.

All of this, 'the video shows how quick WFP can be ' is a bit silly really.

It would mean that i could post a video of myself flashing a microfibre over a window in 2 seconds flat and saying, thats how quick you can clean a window traditional.

For me (and this is just my own opinion) the video here only gives a feeling of being 'misleading'

Carl.   

[Ian_Giles]

Guys, some of you should really keep this in perspective, there have bee the , 'Ah, but what about bird poo? Won't do it that quick if there was bird poo on it!'

Or, 'What about the back, why haven't you shown that?'

Or, 'Yeah....but...no..butyeahbut what if the frames have oxidized?'

That tiny, grainy clip only shows what can be done, it isn't a lie, and it isn't misleading.
On a repeat clean, with windows very similar to that, ie, very spare frames compared to the thick frames of a UPVC window for instance, and on glass that hasn't suffered too badly at the expense of the weather, what you see in that clip is exactly what a skilled practisioner with WFP can achieve.



I've had cleans where I have had to dip the brush in soapy water to loosen the dirt, and then go over it several times to get it right.

If you have a flow rate of only a litre per min then you won't stand a snowballs chance in hell of cleaning at that pace.

If Peter had chosen one of the ubiquitous UPVC windows, about 5 or 6 ft wide and about 4ft high with 1 thin opening light, a pane underneath, and a larger opening one to the side, it would still have only taken him another 10 or 15 seconds to do...tops!
And only then if he was to work at my pace (which is almost certainly slower than his)

so please, stop trying to claim the job is crap when you cannot see the results, and stop carping on about the fact that you can't see the results!!
Even if yo ucould see the dried, fnished results, some of you would probably say that Peter had got his ladders out and gone over it trad to make sure the results were perfect!!!

I am going to do another speed post, more to do with trad really than WFP...though I had a result that shocked me.....


Ian

[ronaldo]

Guys, some of you should really keep this in perspective, there have bee the , 'Ah, but what about bird poo? Won't do it that quick if there was bird poo on it!'

Or, 'What about the back, why haven't you shown that?'

Or, 'Yeah....but...no..butyeahbut what if the frames have oxidized?'

That tiny, grainy clip only shows what can be done, it isn't a lie, and it isn't misleading.
On a repeat clean, with windows very similar to that, ie, very spare frames compared to the thick frames of a UPVC window for instance, and on glass that hasn't suffered too badly at the expense of the weather, what you see in that clip is exactly what a skilled practisioner with WFP can achieve.



I've had cleans where I have had to dip the brush in soapy water to loosen the dirt, and then go over it several times to get it right.

If you have a flow rate of only a litre per min then you won't stand a snowballs chance in hell of cleaning at that pace.

If Peter had chosen one of the ubiquitous UPVC windows, about 5 or 6 ft wide and about 4ft high with 1 thin opening light, a pane underneath, and a larger opening one to the side, it would still have only taken him another 10 or 15 seconds to do...tops!
And only then if he was to work at my pace (which is almost certainly slower than his)

so please, stop trying to claim the job is crap when you cannot see the results, and stop carping on about the fact that you can't see the results!!
Even if yo ucould see the dried, fnished results, some of you would probably say that Peter had got his ladders out and gone over it trad to make sure the results were perfect!!!

I am going to do another speed post, more to do with trad really than WFP...though I had a result that shocked me.....


Ian

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!! some people will always be none beleivers, here endeth the thread, hopefully 

[pjulk]

I think this thread is getting stupid.

You rush the job there is a high chance you will make a mistake.
Taking it easy sometimes work out quicker.

At the end of the day its the quality that counts well it is to me anyway.
So who care how long it takes as long as the end result is clean window.

Paul

[groundhog]

Peter I think you will find that the traffic fumes produced are the same on busy roads in any area!!!!!!!

[Peter Fogwill]

Just to show some newbie's how quick WFP can be, here is a link to Peter Fogwill's site, and it shows him actually cleaning windows with WFP, 2 clips on the page, one shows him getting out the van and and setting up, the other shows him cleaning 2 windows....

What you will see is the kind of speed you work at on a regular repeat clean house....enjoy

I would just like to add that I have also cleaned the two windows faster traditional, not taken into account the time to climb the ladders.  I had to design my own tools to achieve this though, and yes the windows were just as clean as they were after the clean with the WFP.  It was harder work though, the windows didn't stay as clean as long, and it was more dangerous.

Peter Fogwill

[groundhog]

I bet it was more fun though!

[Peter Fogwill]

I bet it was more fun though!

It wasn't for the chap who was on the phone today, he was just returning back to work after breaking his back on a fall from his ladder.

Peter Fogwill

[Pj]

true?

[Sir Squeaky]

I bet it was more fun though!

It wasn't for the chap today who was on the phone, he was just returning back to work after breaking his back on a fall from his ladder.

Peter Fogwill

yawwwwwnnnn. Same old.

It also won't be for the old dear who trips over your hose and breaks her hip.
Then later dies in hospital.....

Have that on your concience because you had to use a tool that might make you a few extra quid.

At least we don't put the public at risk.
You'll be banned one day, maybe soon......

[Peter Fogwill]

true?

Yes.

I have had quite a few people on the phone giving a fall from the ladder the reason for buying a WFP,
the latest was the chap today.

Peter Fogwill

[groundhog]

I hope that isn't another sales pitch

[Peter Fogwill]

yawwwwwnnnn. Same old.

It also won't be for the old dear who trips over your hose and breaks her hip.
Then later dies in hospital.....

Have that on your concience because you had to use a tool that might make you a few extra quid.

At least we don't put the public at risk.
You'll be banned one day, maybe soon......

I doubt it very much.  In three or so years of cleaning with a WFP no old lady as come anywhere near my hose.

Peter Fogwill

[captain lard]

I can see the point though especially in todays Health and Safety climate.I t could take maybe one high profile case to get it looked at.

[rosskesava]

Yup. This thread is getting a bit stupid but at least it is lively and that has to be worth something. The 'my gromet has perrished on my wfp' may be important but it's not as interesting. And before anyone has a go, I've posted a few of them myself.

For me, I am not interested in trad v wfp or wfp v trad. They are both tools to do the job and each has it's own place and merits. For me, the over riding positive point of wfp is 'no ladders'.

What gets me, whether trad of wfp, is claims about either of them that are not true when a single example is used as a general rule to be applied as the normal.

That to me is like a used car salesman with crocodile shoes saying 'this is a nice little runner' while rubbing his hand together in glee.

I had an online 'debate' last year with a window cleaner who claimed to do X amount of houses per hour trad style. It turned out in that case that what he claimed was indeed a fact and I posted an appology for all to see but he did admit that his speed didn't apply to every house he done.

My whole point I wanted to make earlier in this thread was to be honest. Cleaning windows in seconds to perfection is not the experience of most wfp users of which I am one.

If it was that simple and quick, then the whole country would be full of wfp users making money. This forum would not have so many questions about wfp. It would have died a death because no wfp user would need advice.

So, yes, I'm also fed up with reading wfp v trad just as I am 'fed up' with the rubbish that gets posted about the WAHL's and getting done by the customer or whoever if an accident occurs and all that claim rubbish written with little real knowledge on the subject but this is a forum for all to post on. In the end it is just that, a forum. It's not life and death if someone disagree's with me.

What I am not fed up with though is when postings about wfp (or trad) that simply just are either not true or are not in the real world of window cleaning.

Anyway, today the weather has been great here and we've done well work wise using both wfp and trad methods without windows being done in seconds by either method. We just done our job whatever the method and however long it took to do it well.

Cheers.

As I was reviewing what I'd written up comes a posting about falls from ladders by someone who sells wfp. Change the record please.

One thing I'm curious about is that wfp companies or sellers always hear about 'falls from ladders'. Yesterday we were down our local cleaning supplies and oddly enough, he'd also had 2 w/c's who'd had falls from ladders in buying wfp stuff. That brings it to 6 this week.

Another statement that cannot be proved? Why not post something that cannot be denied like ' you will never fall from a ladder using wfp'?

[Peter Fogwill]

I can see the point though especially in todays Health and Safety climate.I t could take maybe one high profile case to get it looked at.

Seriously though you will always get accidents dosn't matter what you do or what you use, you have just got to keep it down to a minimum.  The reason the government stepped in with ladders is because of the high casualty level with people using them.  

WFP hoses are on the ground, anyone tripping over it is not going to fall very far.  

Peter Fogwill

[Peter Fogwill]

As I was reviewing what I'd written up comes a posting about falls from ladders by someone who sells wfp. Change the record please.

One thing I'm curious about is that wfp companies or sellers always hear about 'falls from ladders'. Yesterday we were down our local cleaning supplies and oddly enough, he'd also had 2 w/c's who'd had falls from ladders in buying wfp stuff. That brings it to 6 this week.

Another statement that cannot be proved? Why not post something that cannot be denied like ' you will never fall from a ladder using wfp'?

What makes you think it cannot be proved?

I don't have to come on here to get business if that's what you think.

The reason we hear about falls from ladders is the fact that we speak to people who are in the market for a WFP system, and while speaking to people we find out the reason why they want to buy one.  The most popular reason though is not the fall from ladders, it is the case of a lucrative customer not allowing ladders on the work site for insurance purposes.

Peter Fogwill

[captain lard]

I can see the point though especially in todays Health and Safety climate.I t could take maybe one high profile case to get it looked at.

WFP hoses are on the ground, anyone tripping over it is not going to fall very far.  

Peter Fogwill

Ah right that will sort out any problems straight away,the authorities will throw a claim out straight away cos the old dear/child only fell a very very small distance,forget the injury its all distance based is it?

[Col]

Cracking thread...

I have a van mount system wfp now but started out with one of Peters trolley systems.
The reason i got into wfp was a good contract i have moved into a new office with 40 foot curtain wall windows and they expected them cleaned every month.
Without the wfp i would have lost the job.
Outlaying at the time for the expense of the trolley system i tried to justify it by trying it out on my domestic customers with  varying results.
I have now a balance of jobs where i can see that wfp is a wonderful tool but the majority of the time it lays dormant in the van .
It does work wonders on the bigger jobs but on round work it can be more trouble than it's worth.
For all the unbelievers out there i have cleaned the windows of some of my most critical customers with no complaints with the wfp but i still get flummoxed when i flick the switch and nothing happens.

[Peter Fogwill]

WFP hoses are on the ground, anyone tripping over it is not going to fall very far.  


Peter Fogwill


Ah right that will sort out any problems straight away,the authorities will throw a claim out straight away cos the old dear/child only fell a very very small distance,forget the injury its all distance based is it?

I am not suggesting that any claims would or should be thrown out.  What I am saying is it is very very unlikely that it could end up in a death.

Peter Fogwill