[groundhog]

There is a window cleaner who lives near me, he has been window cleaning for over 30 years, very experienced you might think, well I suppose he is, but he is well known for doing a crap job, yet he has hundred and hundreds of customers! how does he keep them? because he is very cheap, so people put up with the poor workmaship : Experience means nothing if you have no pride in your job!

[WavieDavie]

Poor old Peter's method's have been slated, and all without anyone having the slightest clue as to whether his results are good or bad.

Sorry Ian, re-reading my post it appears to be a bit cryptic.

What I was saying was that I've been with Peter when he was cleaning an up-market hotel's windows in the same fashion as the clip. The windows were well-maintained, and it was a regular clean. The result was perfect - and I think he took a bit of extra time on one to take off some bird-droppings too!

Hope this helps.

[C Senor]

LOL,

This thread has been a classic.

It's something that is never going to be resolved. It is all a matter of personal perspectives from both window cleaners AND customers and i think everyone already knows this, it's just we all like to defend our corners.

I think Peter has had a bit of stick and Ian probably feels guilty because of starting this thread, but i don't think Peter's done himself any favours with the answers he has come up with, i think he's been a bit too aggressive to some comments made, especially considering he is trying to sell WFP. I'm in agreement with some of the other guys, i'm afraid that i couldn't clean a customers window in that way either, it just wouldn't feel right to me ( this is a personal thing and all of the comments in the world won't change this - its the way i am, whether it be a good or bad thing)

I also agree with some of the views about the WFP guys ganging up, don't get me wrong here it's not a problem for me - its just the feeling you get when reading through many of the posts on the forum, it's why i suggested earlier that it may be worthwhile seperating WFP from trad, they seem to be becoming two completely seperate subjects and whenever they combine in a thread, it is just becomes an argument.

WFP may be the future in many peoples eyes, but i think it's a very long way off yet, maybe not for the commercial guys but you have to remember that the window cleaners in this forum are not the only ones in the country. There are a HUGE number of window cleaners out there that do not use this forum and i think the vast majority will be trad.

If i'm driving around i may see the odd WFP but most of the window cleaners i see are traditional, nearly everywhere that i go.

[Moderator David@stives]

this is the normal state of windows on my round, this is a downstairs window on my house , it took me 52 seconds and when dried there were a few spots close to the bottom , saying it probably needed more rinsing maybe a tadge extra scrubbing and about another 10 seconds rinsing and they would of been perfect.

%2 seconds was the fastest i could do and that didnt include the time to set up and get to the window etc.

The window consists of 3 equal size panes , side by side, you can see the state of the windows before the clean full of salty spots and a snail trail at the top of the pane.

These windows were last cleaned 2 months ago

[neil100]

Dave thats a shocking finish

Do you need help

The times were pretty slow as well

Open your eyes mate and lay off the Grog

Nel

[Pj]

Phew!

This is a long thread to read, but one of the more interesting ones.

A lot of issues on here.  It is rare to read so many relevant posts on the subject of wfp advantages/disadvantages.  I've been away for a week.

This is good, don't delete it.

Pj

[Ian_Giles]

Steady on Neil!!
, a snail trail alone will add 10 or 15 seconds to a window and a couple of 'tracks' will make it evem longer!!! (actually I  think a snail trail is easier to deal with WFP, I hate the bloody things, but I also believe WFP is best for them, I'll save the reasons for another thread)

Salt deposits will also ad to the time taken to clean the windows.

A very honest posting from David,

With the snail trial and the salt, few of us would have done a better job faster....

Ian

[rosskesava]

I can't post anything? All I get when I attempt to post is 'internal error'?

Odd? Those few words got posted. Maybe the server has reached it's limit?

[rosskesava]

When I try to post what I wrote i get the following:

I can't work it out?

[WavieDavie]

This thread has been a classic.

It's something that is never going to be resolved. It is all a matter of personal perspectives from both window cleaners AND customers and i think everyone already knows this, it's just we all like to defend our corners.

Hi C

You get the same within wfp users! Trolley users defend trolleys, but those who started with them and now have vanmounts say that THEY'RE the best.

Just as if you talk to someone who's kid goes to a fee-paying school - they're shelling out lots, do you think they're going to slag off that school? No chance - because that reflects back  on them and the choice they've made. Show one of these parents the school league tables - I guarantee you fee-paying schools are not ALL at the top.

The more honest/realistic amongst us realise that wfp is just another tool to be used for a particular circumstance - nobody can be 100% wfp.

Life goes on . . .

[neil100]

Your right Ian wfp is far better at dealing with snail trails then trad.

But what is the point of timeing yourself to clean a window if you are not going to clean it properly. I cant see the point.

Removeing a snail trail just takes a little bit of extra scrubbing, You have to exert more pressure on the glass. I have the vikan brush head on my mini pole for this very reason, It slaughters snail trails.

It is very easy to see if you have removed a snail trail with how the water runs on the glass when rinseing. Remmber Dave as done a downstairs window, so I am sorry their is no exuse for a window not being cleaned correctly in my book. I would of taken a photo of before and after. Timed a full and correct clean of the dirty window. ( Sorry its pretty pointless giveing a time to clean a window when its not cleaned correctly) Then timed it again when it had dried out to see how long it would of taken when the windows we clean are not that dirty.

You are right Ian in that an average window takes about 30 seconds to clean wfp, Its amazing how much I was counting in my head last week.

I am sure Squeaks will have a laugh at Daves photos. It will give him ammunition as to why he wont ever clean wfp.

Speed is pointless if the results are poor.

Come on Dave do it properly

Nel. 

[Moderator David@stives]

Neil

Both photos are from before i have not posted the after yet , i will post that later.

It is very difficult to get a window this dirty clean in less than a minute with wfp.

The window was cleaned correctly , i scrubbed and rinsed every inch of that window, the same as i
do everyday and normally get very good results considering the state of the windows before i start,

I will post the after picture later

Dave

[Moderator David@stives]

here are the after photos 52 seconds and 2 days later

[groundhog]

I doubt that many wfp window cleaners go back and check every window that they clean after it has completely dried, but this is the only way that you can really be sure that they have been properly cleaned, yet with trad I know the window is properly cleaned as soon as I have finished it, the results are right there in front of me

[Pj]

Valid point, Groundhog.  No arguments with that. 
Mind you, when I'm doing a big site, trad, I just get going and don't look back, I know instinctively that the windows will be good, I just don't bother checking.  In many ways wfp is the same, on a big site I just get going and don't look back, I now know instinctively weather or not the results will be satisfactory.
But the truth is I am more certain of the results doing it trad, as you said really.

Pj

[neil100]

Sorry to say Groundhog I disagree.

You can look at a window straight on that you have cleaned Trad and think its clean, You can then look at it from the side and see marks on the glass that you cant see straight on. You might think its clean then but if you look from below the window looking up at a tight angle you may see further Evidence that the window is not as clean as you thought.

If you are doing it trad you are not going to spend 30 to 40 seconds a window checking to see if its 100% clean, then spend extra time putting it right. Most w/c struggle to get the windows clean around Jan and Febuary, WHY? Because the sun is lower in the sky and it shows up any marks on the window, The days then are generally less cloudy then the last couple of months and it can be a shock as to how good you think you are.

No w/c is going to spend a vast amount of time checking his work. I check my wfp work every now and then, I only do it when I collect my money if the glass as dried. I will even do a quick check now and again when collecting at night time.

If there is nothing wrong with the frame or seals around a window, wfp will give perfect results every time. All my customers know they can pick up the phone if the windows are not perfect and I will put it right. It is strange how the phone never rings, but it is no suprise to me.

Nel.

[Sir Squeaky]

If there is nothing wrong with the frame or seals around a window, wfp will give perfect results every time.

Oh come on!

That's a ridiculous quote.
Even the most keen of wfp users wouldn't suggest perfect results every time....

I know from witnessing hundreds of results that it's nothing like that really.

[Ian_Giles]

Roger, do you really have to take things quite so literally!!

Neil is quite right in what he says

If there is nothing wrong with the frame or seals around a window, wfp will give perfect results every time.

Oh come on!

That's a ridiculous quote.
Even the most keen of wfp users wouldn't suggest perfect results every time....

I know from witnessing hundreds of results that it's nothing like that really.

when the seals and frames are good, then you will know full well that you are going to get top results Roger, I'm sorry, but as you do not use WFP this is simply not something you can comment on acurately.

Neil is also spot on with his observations about trad cleaning and low sun showing up your faults.
Get it right with WFP and these faults are simply not there.

I can take yo uto windows that when the sun is at the right angle you will do work with a squeegee that looks poor.
Check it an hour or two later and it will look absolutely perfect!!

I can show you account after account that will come up just about perfect everytime.
you certainly won't better it with TRad window cleaning.

nobody is perfect, no one is without flaws, we all make little mistakes here and there, but with both methods the job will turn out only as good as the operator that is cleaning the windows can manage.

Ian

[Jeff Brimble]

Please seperate the wfp from Trad. PLEASE

[neil100]

Sorry Dave.

I thought one of the first photos was after you had cleaned them. The second set of photos show the glass as it should be.

Just ignore my comments.

Nel. SOS