[Ian_Giles]

Just to show some newbie's how quick WFP can be, here is a link to Peter Fogwill's site, and it shows him actually cleaning windows with WFP, 2 clips on the page, one shows him getting out the van and and setting up, the other shows him cleaning 2 windows....

What you will see is the kind of speed you work at on a regular repeat clean house....enjoy

http://www.window-tools.com/trailer-videos.htm


Ian

[C Senor]

I must admit that i am curious about WFP but like many others i have my doubts as to whether it is worth the extra outlay and the extra hassle of setting it up. I like to wash my cloths and get in my car, keeping it nice and simple.

I dont see the point of these vids to be honest, it may just be me - but all i can see, is how quick it is to move a brush over a window.

I'm not knocking it as i have never tried it but i think a 'close up' vid of a before, during and after is the only thing that will be of any interest to anyone thinking of going WFP.

If it is as simple as it shows in the video, surely everyone in the country will be at it soon. It doesn't take long for everyone and their dog to jump on the 'bandwagon' - the thing with traditional cleaning is that not everyone can handle the heights and the physical aspect, seems that with guys pushing the whole 'easy' WFP thing then they may be making the huge mistake of undervaluing the service that they provide and eventually this surely will lead to 'market saturation.'


Carl.

P.S.  If you can see a bandwagon, then you are too late.

[groundhog]

C Senor, I totally agree with your post. You have to ask yourself why these people are trying so hard to promote wfp use, do they want lots of competition and lower prices? or do they have another motive?
 
As I have said before I use trad & wfp, but on 90% of my round trad is much quicker. If you go round just giving it a quick brush down and a quick splash you may be able to clean them quite quick but the results will be rubbish! You can get good results with wfp but you have to take your time and do it properly!

[colinyates]

Do like WFP's but hand on heart this is not a good
marketing video.

The quality is poor and gives no indication has to how
great this system is.

Colin 

[david68]

got to admit at that speed i would not think i have earned my money.
Or given customer satifaction

Dave

[Clear Vision]

Its not as easy as that!

I can do It that fast but I take 2-4 times longer than that. Anyone who does It that fast can't be doing a good job

When were those windows last cleaned? 5 mins before the video was shot

What If there Is insect dirt or bird dirt on the glass? I can assure you that on a monthly clean there Is some stubborn dirt on about 80% of houses. Which would mean there would have to be a lot more scrubbing than that!

Come on Ian!  Is that the best you can find?

[Moderator David@stives]

Peter said that video was for demonstration purposes only

Here is the quote from the web site

The purpose of these videos is to show exactly how long it can take to do a couple of windows with the trailer system. How much time the window cleaners take to clean such windows is up to them, some window cleaners may spend more time rinsing or thouroly going over the frames, again that is up to the individual window cleaners. These videos were also taken before the launch of the new autobrush. The Autobrush makes for even easier window cleaning.

Dave

[s.hughes]

Noticed he never rinsed the glass.

Steve

[geefree]

As a newbie, i am curious about wfp, .. and i watch with interest,

i have long thought that once w/c becomes that easy that anyone can do it, the induststry as a whole would be saturated and only the already established guys would get on,

but then the 2.50 boys would be out in force much more than now,

i do really think it is a fantastic thing for the future, even though i know little about it,

but when you look at starting any new business, you look at competition and possible changes in the market ahead,
so that was and still is a concern to me, as a newbie.

Just out of interest, do people who use wfp, always do a first clean traditionally?

And my final point here is, why invent  something so brilliant .....yet it drips water everywhere whilst cleaning , if they can stick a water extractor in a wet and dry vac.... then why cant they do the same with wfp....

Imagine that wash, rinse.... and then all the water sucked off the window... ! soap residue as well..


Gary.

[geefree]

and having said all that i have just knocked back a detached house because there were huge bushes in front of the lounge window, making impossible to put a ladder up even with 2 people, for the large bedroom window above.

fors and against eh?

[drew86]

If I did it that quick even on second third cleans there would be spots all over the glass, I like to wash frames and glass go to another window then go back and rinse when frames have stopped dripping.
I must admit tho, I am realy enjoying second cleans now, seems so much quicker than those dreaded first cleans but not as quick as Peter's demo.
Drew.

[captain lard]

Last week I began to think a backpack might be dead handy but then thought of the cost and the hassle involved and decided to just keep it simple and keep it trad for me personally,not knocking it but for me where I am at now it doesnt make sense but in time it might be an option.

I wasnt sure if he was actually cleaning them but it was interesting to read that it was only a demo so the speed he went at in that clip didnt really mean anything.

[windows_chepstow]

I must admit tho, I am realy enjoying second cleans now, seems so much quicker than those dreaded first cleans but not as quick as Peter's demo.
Drew.

Drew,

Wait until your own windows are dirty; then clean them at super-quick speed and take a look at the results.

I do this when Wor Lass forces me to to clean my own windows and they still come up good.

I do take a bit more time on my customers though; the big fanny I am!

[Sir Squeaky]

Ian, you're less boring when you talk about cricket, and that takes some beating.

I'd like to have a laugh at the state of those windows after he'd gone.
I could do them trad that quick...if I didn't detail, didn't do sill, etc..... :

But they'd look crap.
Not as crap as he would have left them, but crap none-the-less.

If you want fast and accurate, look no further than our own Terry (squeegee god) Burrows.
You wouldn't get near him.

[Ian_Giles]

My word...lol, I thought that would get some replies

Peter has been WFP cleaning longer than most of us, and you will find that the windows have been rinsed!!
I guess this thread kind of ties in with the ongoing debate about rinsing on or off the glass, but Peter has a very high flow rate, and you must also remember that the window is being continually rinsed as it is being washed.
Quality is basic, but it is only there to show the speed that an experienced WFFPer can work at.
Now I find that probably 90% and above of my monthly repeat cleans are barely dirty enough to warrant cleaning again.
By the way, I believe in keeping the windows clean, not waiting until they get dirty to clean them.
I also find that fly poo washes of glass very easily indeed, bird poo is noticable at a glance, and when you see it then you spend more time washing it off.

Looks easy doesn't it?

but as some of the comments made have already shown, even those that now have WFP express doubts as to how those windows can be cleaned properly in that time.
Easy?
No it isn't you really do have to know what you are doing to do a proper job in this kind of time, you simply won't achieve this overnight.

But as I have pointed out on several occasions now, 30-40 seconds per window is very achievable.
you will also need to work with a very high flow rate to achieve it too.
I'm working at well over 2, maybe 2.5  litres a minute, but it has taken a long time for me to be comfortable working with such a high flow rate.
For a long time my flow rate was half of that, I simply couldn't cope with that much water gushing out of my brush.

Watch an experienced trad window cleaner whip through a few patio windows, it looks so easy that its obvious that anyone can do it.
but as we all know, what that trad guy does in a few minutes will take a total newbie 5 or 6 times as long to achieve, and the quality of the clean will be poor.

This I know from many years of employing and training window cleaners!
On a 12 window house I would do all of the upstairs and most of the downstairs too, they would be lucky to get 2 windows done, and I would probably have to go over most of their work to boot

This clip isn't a speed clip, it isn't about quality, it is merely an example of what can be done..

Ian.

Oh dear, as I clicked on 'post' I saw that others had replied....

As usual I see that Squeaks has to slag of WFP and in particular slag of the ability of one of the leaders in WFP, such critisism is rude and unjustified.

Peter was not trying to speed clean, it was merely an example of WFP in action and being done by a very experienced and professional window cleaner.

Any time you want to tag along and watch me clean a standard monthly clean Roger, be my guest, get out your stop watch and time me on how long it takes me to get my gear out and clean a similar number of windows, including the downstairs.
We'll have a coffee and a chat while we wait for the windows to dry so that you can verify that they have been done to a high standard.
You will also notice that all frames and sills are thoroughly washed too.

I think you will find that the job that Peter has done will be as good as any that you could do.
this wasn't posted as a trad v WFP thread, it was pure WFP.

I did not post this link to see an unsuspecting man pilloried for doing his job, and his integrity called into question.
Comments like Squeaks will leave me no option but to delete the thread.

Ian

[C Senor]

I know that many of you are envolved in an ongoing debate about trad v wfp but Ians last comment makes me even more suspicious of these constant posts.

Seems that we cannot express an opinion. If the moderator doesnt like the answers then he simply threatens to withdraw the thread.

Is nobody else suspicious that this link is derived from a website that sells WFP systems !!??

A great psychiatrist once said that it takes a 'split second' to make a decision but you will spend an eternity justifying that decision.

Seems to me that alot of WF Polers are falling into that category.

[drew86]

Tosh tried that and the wife moaned they were still dirty, but i must admit I was useing a lower flow rate than i am useing now, as with everything in life its a learning curve and i have still a long way to go but as every clean goes by I get better with my technique and my understanding of WFP.
Squeaky take Ian up on his offer, I know your a trad specialist and I think alot of what you say is down to your sense of humour which perhaps some people dont get, but I think you would be surprised at what can be achieved with WFP.
Drew.

[Moderator David@stives]

I tend to agree with Squeeky , this post was originaly to say look how fast wfp is.

Only in the latter stages did anyone say that the post was there for demonstration purposes.

If i cleaned that fast in my area they would be full of spots or runs, I followed Tosh's advice a few months back and low and behold i got complaints, justified ones.

There was very little scrubbing in that clip, so any impacted dirt would be left behind also if there has been a greasy or salty wind, that would be left behind too.

It is the scrubbing action that loosens the dirt, not going through it with one stroke then rinsing.

If i cleaned windows in just half that speed here in Cornwall the windows would still have traces of bird muck or salt on them.

Dave

[Sir Squeaky]

I think you will find that the job that Peter has done will be as good as any that you could do.
Maybe he can, but not in 10 seconds like that, no. Not a chance.

As usual I see that Squeaks has to slag of WFP and in particular slag of the ability of one of the leaders in WFP, such critisism is rude and unjustified.

I did not post this link to see an unsuspecting man pilloried for doing his job, and his integrity called into question.
Comments like Squeaks will leave me no option but to delete the thread.

I think it's rude and unjustified that I'm being slated for saying exactly what plenty of others above me had said.
You never mentioned anyone else as usual.
I agreed with others, but because it doesn't rave about your "Magic Wand" you blame me. :

[abacus]

Hi all
I am a fan of wfp it is quicker it is safer and the results are supurb on 98 % of windows however I was disapointed in this vid I really dont think the windows would come up that well at that speed unless cleaned weekly. also he does not look that professonal the whole way the van and trailor is presented I though he sold systems and I would not be impressed with this vid and buy from him.
This is only my opinion but from it is easy to see why Ionics is the largest, thier presentation and sales brochures are great even if the after sales service lets them down

The good thing about wfp is that anyone can do it but I dont think you have to worrey to much about the 2/6d brigade as the set up cost and running cost will always command a  good price and most people will want the job done properly frame and all not just a rub with a dirty couple of beer mats. But just to make it clear I am not talking about good trad workers there will always be a place for them even when most windows wether commercial or domestic are done with wfp because you will still need to clean internaly and some  windows not suitable for wfp by hand.

as for the point about sucking up the water I had a machine once that did this but you still had to clean in trad style the rubbers where crap and it left lines all over the window  but it was great for cleaning bathroom tiles    
 I expect Rubin will now post a vid "that he prepared earlier"

Regards grant