[Peter Fogwill]

C Senor, I totally agree with your post. You have to ask yourself why these people are trying so hard to promote wfp use, do they want lots of competition and lower prices? or do they have another motive?
 
As I have said before I use trad & wfp, but on 90% of my round trad is much quicker. If you go round just giving it a quick brush down and a quick splash you may be able to clean them quite quick but the results will be rubbish! You can get good results with wfp but you have to take your time and do it properly!

Groundhog, you can do it fast and do it proper.  How many people have you seen that use a squeegee much slower than you do, and some of them will do a worse job even although they do it slower.

Peter Fogwill

[Peter Fogwill]

got to admit at that speed i would not think i have earned my money.
Or given customer satifaction

Dave

The customer pays a certain amount to have their windows cleaned, at the end of the day the windows are clean, what’s the problem? 

Peter Fogwill

[Peter Fogwill]

Its not as easy as that!

I can do It that fast but I take 2-4 times longer than that. Anyone who does It that fast can't be doing a good job

When were those windows last cleaned? 5 mins before the video was shot

What If there Is insect dirt or bird dirt on the glass? I can assure you that on a monthly clean there Is some stubborn dirt on about 80% of houses. Which would mean there would have to be a lot more scrubbing than that!

Come on Ian!  Is that the best you can find?

Not the first time I have been accused of not doing a window properly, but only from people who have not seen the results thankfully.  I was once told that no way I could leave a window clean without detailing after squeegeeing.

Peter Fogwill

[Peter Fogwill]

Ian, you're less boring when you talk about cricket, and that takes some beating.

I'd like to have a laugh at the state of those windows after he'd gone.
I could do them trad that quick...if I didn't detail, didn't do sill, etc..... :

But they'd look crap.
Not as crap as he would have left them, but crap none-the-less.

If you want fast and accurate, look no further than our own Terry (squeegee god) Burrows.
You wouldn't get near him.

I have always tried to stay clear of  traditional vs. WFP debates.  If you think of it traditional window cleaning is probably more likely to be a chamois and scrim, the squeegee is still in its infancy.  Why did we move over to the squeegee? because it was much faster and much better results.  Same with the WFP much faster and much better results.  WFP is the traditional of the future.

Peter Fogwill

[Peter Fogwill]

I tend to agree with Squeeky , this post was originaly to say look how fast wfp is.

Only in the latter stages did anyone say that the post was there for demonstration purposes.

If i cleaned that fast in my area they would be full of spots or runs, I followed Tosh's advice a few months back and low and behold i got complaints, justified ones.

There was very little scrubbing in that clip, so any impacted dirt would be left behind also if there has been a greasy or salty wind, that would be left behind too.

It is the scrubbing action that loosens the dirt, not going through it with one stroke then rinsing.

If i cleaned windows in just half that speed here in Cornwall the windows would still have traces of bird muck or salt on them.

Dave

Dave you deal with every window individually.  When cleaning with a squeegee you look at the glass first to see what needs to be done, once you see what needs to be done you set about cleaning it.  If you see a bit of bird dirt you won't scrub the whole of the glass as much as you scrub the particular section with the birds dirt on it would you?  No.  And you wouldn’t scrub a window for a whole minute just because you had to scrub the window before for a minute because it had birds dirt on it, would you?  And the same applies to WFP work, you don't scrub and rinse the heck out of the glass just in case the glass has something on it.  You are not working behind a curtain, you can see what is, or is not on the glass.

Peter Fogwill

[neil100]

Wow Peter you like to give a good reply. I think you have covered all the points.

I will say you talk a lot of common sense.

Nel.

[P®oPole™]

Hi Peter,

While your hear I would greatly appreciate your expert advise in using poles correctly, do you recommend rinsing brush off?

Can you clarify that its ok to rinse brush on?

Reards
ProPole

[Peter Fogwill]

Hi Peter,

While ypur hear I would greatly appreciate your expert advise in using poles correctly, do you reccomend rinsing brush off?

Can you clarify that its ok to rinse brush on?

Reards
ProPole

Hi Propole, I very rarely lift the brush off the glass, but I would not say never, sometimes it might be necessary.

I think personally you waste water by doing a separate rinse with the brush off the glass, but I suppose it depends on a few things, water pressure, jets, brush, to name but a few.

Peter Fogwill

[P®oPole™]

Thanks for the reply Peter. 

[Peter Fogwill]

Wow Peter you like to give a good reply. I think you have covered all the ponts.

I will say you talk a lot of common sense.

Nel.

Thanks Neil,  and thanks Ian.

I think Ian covered most of the points for me, and saved me quite a bit of typing.

Peter Fogwill

[Sir Squeaky]

Why did we move over to the squeegee? because it was much faster and much better results.  Same with the WFP much faster and much better results.

Please.....my sides have split!!!

Classic. 

[Peter Fogwill]

Why did we move over to the squeegee? because it was much faster and much better results.  Same with the WFP much faster and much better results.

Please.....my sides have split!!!

Classic.

Squeaky, the earlier post about the paint roller got me thinking I wonder how many old painters went about saying you won't catch me using a roller,  I can do a much better job with a brush running up and down a ladder all day?  Even although he could have put his roller on a pole and covered large expanses in a fraction of the time, and most of the time standing safely on the ground.  I bet there was still some who said the brush was best. 


I take it you don't believe in the results as that is the part you underlined?  So you are beginning to accept that the WFP is faster.  Well I suppose that is one step in the right direction. another two steps and your life will change for the better.

Peter Fogwill

[Ian_Giles]

You may laugh, but come along Rog, watch me work, time me and check my results...(not after 3 weeks of weathering have taken place)
Tosh will no doubt be happy to offer you the same.

I'm not as quick as Peter, but I'm quicker than you.

You like to finish early on a Friday, so just so that it doesn't affect your earnings, meet me friday after you finish work, come along and see exactly what WFP is capable of in skilled hands.
We can go and have a coffee with the customer (I'll save a bungalow I have to do) by the time we have finished chatting to the customer (she's a lovely old lady) the windows will be dry and you can check and verify the results.

what will take me 20 minutes (or less) would take you 40 (I'm not joking) all straight forward Squeegee windows too. all UPVC.

Why did we move over to the squeegee? because it was much faster and much better results.  Same with the WFP much faster and much better results.

Please.....my sides have split!!!

Classic. 

you sacastically say your sides are splitting, inferring Peter is talking Tosh (sorry Tosh )
If you are busy this Friday I'll save it for next Friday, or the Friday after if you like....
Think how dirty it will be by then, and I'm already a week late!

come on...make a WFP advocate eat humble pie!...if you dare that is

have just read Peter's reply,

When I started decorating it was exactly in that state of flux!
The old timers sneered at using rollers, finish was pants etc...

All change now though.....

Ian

[mark dew]

I'm still learning how to detail properly so i find wfp quicker on most of my work than traditional. But where having wfp really makes a difference is that i can now clean 100% of the properties i work on, instead of the 90% when using a ladder only.
It's only 10% i know, but it is the most lucrative % of the job.
And after cleaning 90% off ladders, it is free extra income.
No travel costs and a few pennies worth of pure water.
It also gives freedom to seek out work that would be unsuitable with ladders.

Great thread.

mark

[groundhog]

You can say what you like but there is no way that you can make a good job of cleaning a window by sloshing a bit of water on it and pushing a brush up and down a couple of times! :
I use wfp, so don't try to make out to me  that there is any skill to it, I know that you can make a good job with wfp, but that is by taking a bit of time and care, and also pride in your job I would not have the nerve or cheek to clean my customers windows in that kind of slap dash fashion!
I have recently gained some work in a local village  because the customers did not like the way their old cleaner cleaned their windows, he used wfp, and he did a very poor job, there were spots and runs all over the glass, and he had made no effort to wipe any sills. I am going to clean them trad, and the customers are delighted

[Sir Squeaky]

I've already seen lots of poor results, and so have a lot of other people.

You cleaning one house when you know I'm inspecting it isn't going to reverse what I've seen.

If I get time I'll have a look.
I'm sure you'll do a lovely job.
But I know how it often does turn out.....

...and how can you have a bungalow that takes me 40 mins?
It would have to be best part of 50 windows!

I don't know of any 15 bedroom bungys.

[chris@c.m.s]

You can say what you like but there is no way that you can make a good job of cleaning a window by sloshing a bit of water on it and pushing a brush up and down a couple of times!

Groundhog If you are wfp and not getting better results on 95% of your cleans then it beats me as too how some wfpolers are screwing up  my round was building steadilly before wfp now I cant go out without picking up more work I think there must be an awfull lot of wfpers out there that havent done there homework for reports of such bad results.   

[neil100]

You can say what you like but there is no way that you can make a good job of cleaning a window by sloshing a bit of water on it and pushing a brush up and down a couple of times! :
I use wfp, so don't try to make out to me  that there is any skill to it,
I have recently gained some work in a local village  because the customers did not like the way their old cleaner cleaned their windows, he used wfp, and he did a very poor job, there were spots and runs all over the glass, and he had made no effort to wipe any sills. I am going to clean them trad, and the customers are delighted

Groundhog,

Sorry I do disagree with you yet again. Wfp will do a perfect job on allmost every window, their are expections but you get to know which windows or houses these are and you can do them trad.

But you are trying to paint a picture that wfp is no good for a domestic round which is wrong. You have gone back to trad on domestics, fine I dont have a problem with that. But you should not try to infer that wfp is rubbish on a domestic round. I have a domestic round and wfp is fantastic on it, Yes I do odd houses and odd windows trad were wfp does not do the job to the standard I require. I am a w/c that uses both methods but wfp is used on about  96% of my round.

You know many wfp on this forum are happy with the results of wfp on domestic work. I am only posting this reply because a newbie could be put off investing in wfp becayse of reading posts like yours. If a lot of w/c were to switch back to trad because of bad results with wfp on domestic work you would have a pont. As it is you have to see you yourself as a very rare example in doing so.

As for customers being unhappy with wfp. You have to ask how good is the person useing it? I had a customer who as just come back off holiday, she stayed in a flat and while on holiday the flat was cleaned with wfp. She said " I could not beleive it when the windows dried out they were all spotty and streaky. I was really suprised because I thought they would be just as clean as when you do them. Why should  those windows be so dirty and yours so clean?

Nel.

[Moderator David@stives]

Peter

Here in Cornwall you DO have to give the windows that extra scrub and rinse, i have been caught out too many times by windows that look clean initially only to find out later they were full of salt spray.

You can not always see it from the ground, anyone in a coastal town will tell you the same, they will also tell you seagull mess can be well and truly stuck and can take up to a couple of minutes to remove off each pane.

None of my windows are any where clean when i return to them after a month, they are either full of salt , bird muck , traffic dirt or snail trails so extra attention is always required

Dave

[groundhog]

I have never said that wfp was rubbish, I was refering to the way in which they were being cleaned on the video clip at the start of this thread, there is no way that you can clean a window properly like the man in that clip.
Wfpers keep going on about how much more proffessional they look, well take a look at the clip and tell me that it looks proffessional, it dosn't at all, I just hope that he is a £2.50 merchant, because that is all its worth if you clean windows like that.
As for not many wfp window cleaners going back to trad on domestics, all the window cleaners that I know in my area, and I can think of at least 6, have gone back to mainly trad on domestics, and use the wfp for commercial and conservatory roofs ect. Also I have read about others on other less biased forums, also going back to trad.