[Moderator David@stives]

I have just opened my post to find i have just lost a  contract, not a nice thing to wake up to on a saturday morning.

They state all there service contracts are now being provided through an estate management company therefor they no longer require my services.   

ah well time to move on and see this as an opportunity rather than a loss.

Dave

[neil100]

Are you crying in your Cornflakes Dave.

I would be thats £2,880.00 over the year. Thats your winter holiday gone.

Thats the trouble with contract work, great while you have it, A kick in the proverbials when you lose it.

Nel : 

[jeff1]

ah well time to move on and see this as an opportunity rather than a loss.

Dave

Sorry to hear that dave, but with an attitude like that you won't be down for long, I love your attitude Dave, it shows your a good and keen business man.

[Majestic]

Dave
Could you not contact the estate management company to see if they need you proffesional services

[Moderator David@stives]

Just to let you all know, I have lost this job to  the largest one stop cleaning firm in  the UK

[Paul Coleman]

Just to let you all know, I have lost this job to  the largest one stop cleaning firm in  the UK

Which one David?

OCS ??

[KJG]

Just to let you all know, I have lost this job to  the largest one stop cleaning firm in  the UK

Been there, done that. I don't mind losing work to other window cleaners but hate it when it goes to the massive, cover all, greedy outfits.

Oh well, look on the bright side. At least some caretaker's missus has got a nice new little Fiesta or Corsa

[Moderator David@stives]

Shiner

Correct

It is not an easy clean, it took me a few months to figure out where to park the van ,what time to do it, what the problem areas were with wfp, how to get the gates unlocked etc.

I reckon I will get it back one day, because i dont think they can deliver the same level of service as i did.

What annoys the most is at the beginning they stressed they wanted the work to go to local people, that did not last long did it.

[Roy Harding]

Dave post them the picture of the window cleaner that fell, as there saftey record is poor and let them know they could be fined.

Roy

[Moderator David@stives]

http://www.ocs.co.uk/Our_Services/Cleaning/Window_Cleaning

After a few phone calls, I have found out the building owners were not happy with the present cleaners for the washrooms etc, so invited OCS to tender and while they were there they talked them into the window cleaning as well.

Dave

[jeff1]

Here you go dave send them this:-

News release   
 
 
  26 June 2006

Major window cleaning safety investigation ends in guilty pleas all round
When OCS Ltd., a major national cleaning company, pleaded guilty this month at Southwark Crown court to five charges of breaching health & safety law, they brought to an end a complex investigation arising out a near-fatal fall from height accident in August 2003.

A previous court case had also seen Lloyds TSB, their clients at time of the accident, plead guilty in the City of London Magistrates’ Court to breaching health & safety law for failing to manage them as contractors.

The prosecution of two such large organisations arose out an accident at Lloyds TSB’s Faryners House offices, near Monument in the City of London when Mr Andy Garrity, a 57 year old window cleaner fell uncontrolled to the pavement whilst using a Spanset Rope Descent Kit as part of a rope access technique.

Mr Garrity sustained major injuries including spinal injuries and neurological damage and is currently unable to continue in his profession of over 35 years as a window cleaner.

OCS Ltd. were today fined a total of £40,000 with £54,190 costs with one count of failing to provide suitable and sufficient training to their employees attracting a fine of £35,000 on its own.

In a previous, linked case in September last year, their clients, Lloyds TSB were fined £8,000 with £12,000 costs after pleading guilty to three charges of breaching health & safety law. However an Order made under the Contempt of Court Act 1981 prevented all the parties involved from publicising result of that trial prior to the end of this second trial involving OCS Ltd.

Falls from height is one of the Priority Programmes for the HSE’s “FIT3” Strategy for 2005/08 and the national Height Aware campaign which focuses on building maintenance and facilities management was launched last month by Government Minster for Health & Safety, Lord Philip Hunt.

Dr. Roger Watson, Director of Environmental Services said:-

“This case not only illustrates the serious risks of allowing inadequately-trained staff to engage in rope access techniques when working at height but also the need to ensure that contractors engaged by any organisation are performing safely and that their performance is being actively monitored. The City is an overtly outsourced working environment and so it its crucial that client organisations actively manage their contractors’ health & safety performance.

“I hope these prosecutions send out a clear message on our enforcement stance on working at height and other high risk activities and I would also like to express our grateful thanks to our partners in health & safety enforcement, the Health & Safety Executive, for their invaluable technical support and assistance in this case.”

Ends

For further information
Fiona Milligan, Senior Press Officer, Public Relations Office  Tel. 020 7332 3451

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/media_centre/files2006/Major+window+cleaning+safety+investigation+ends+in+guilty+pleas+all+round.htm

This is the link to the report.

 

 
 
 

[D woods]

Hi Dave
Sorry to hear about your contract loss, we have had that happen to us lots of times
because we only do window cleaning. And the customer suddenly decides they want
one company to provide all services.

We always find when one contract ends, something else always comes along
to replace it .


I think it is unfair for everyone to have a go at OCS as they have to make a profit
just the same as every other business.

[Paul Coleman]

http://www.ocs.co.uk/Our_Services/Cleaning/Window_Cleaning

After a few phone calls, I have found out the building owners were not happy with the present cleaners for the washrooms etc, so invited OCS to tender and while they were there they talked them into the window cleaning as well.

Dave

That's often the way David.  These bigger companies can afford to use the window cleaning as a loss leader.
I want to grow my business into a more commercial direction.  I think I would need to tender for the internal cleaning in order to get the window cleaning at many places.  The problem being that I would not want to do the internal cleaning myself so would need to employ part-time workers for this side of things.  It's not something I would relish but it may be the way I have to go.
Sorry to hear about your contract loss David.  In view of some of the things I've heard about OCS, maybe it would be worth your while staying in contact with the company concerned.  Perhaps you may feel inclined to tender for the internal cleaning?

[Moderator David@stives]

Jeff

I know where you are coming from, but i think it will make me sound petty. And as D. Woods said we all have
to make a profit, and one of the first rules of business is to not knock the oposition, do it where it matters and
that is on the job.

david / shiner

As i said earlier i am waiting on a call for an apartment block, which will more than cover what i have lost, failing that
I have got a bit more time on my hands for some marketing, sometimes you spend all day chasing your tail, rather than
looking forward.

If i had known I would of made an exception and quoted for the communial cleaning as well, but i did not get a chance
to tender at all, I even went out of my way to do a builders clean a few days before i got the letter.

This objective one money is european money to help to regenerate deprived areas and as such should serve to create local jobs , help local tradesmen etc, how can money meant for such projects be spent with national firms.

Dave

[Paul Coleman]

This objective one money is european money to help to regenerate deprived areas and as such should serve to create local jobs , help local tradesmen etc, how can money meant for such projects be spent with national firms.

Dave

They would probably argue that the people they would be employing to do it are out of the local population.
I once won a small contract from OCS when I first started out.  I was doorknocking and the householder had a business with employees in an extension at the back of the house.  She was miffed that OCS kept leaving lots of windows.  I did my quote but pointed out that I would have to leave some windows too.  She was fine with that but was annoyed at OCS because they left windows that they said they would clean.  These days I can do all the windows due to WFP.  The job started out as a £15er six times a year - so £90 a year.  Later, they bought a place elsewhere to house their business as it grew and put a huge conservatory onto their house.  Those jobs are now worth £400 a year to me.  Not huge jobs but the bread and butter stuff of which many window cleaning businesses are made.  These are some of my earliest customers and really decent people.

[pjulk]

I quoted a job and also OCS quoted the same job the hotel rang me up and said they are going to go with OCS as they were half my price.

Which i priced down to the bone anyway to get the job.

How they make money i never know but they must be.

Paul

[james cairns]

paul the bigger companies can run on deficiits and get the work in cheap to just pay the bills as long as they have assests and are paying their large overdraft interest to the bank then the directors can take large wages as an employee of the company, and everyone is happy the bank is happy getting interest the directors are happy taking wages and the company runs constantly in the red
as long as they have assests to cover them, this way big companies can go in to just cover the wages and make profits on the less competetive contracts

for small guys to compete you need to be fast and efficent, and prepared to work your bo@@ocks off  as with these companies a lot of man hours are wasted with emploees taking wonders from the job as the wages are usually low

hope this helps

 jinky

[Paul Coleman]

paul the bigger companies can run on deficiits and get the work in cheap to just pay the bills as long as they have assests and are paying their large overdraft interest to the bank then the directors can take large wages as an employee of the company, and everyone is happy the bank is happy getting interest the directors are happy taking wages and the company runs constantly in the red
as long as they have assests to cover them, this way big companies can go in to just cover the wages and make profits on the less competetive contracts

for small guys to compete you need to be fast and efficent, and prepared to work your bo@@ocks off  as with these companies a lot of man hours are wasted with emploees taking wonders from the job as the wages are usually low

hope this helps

 jinky

Surely though there comes a point where that way of doing business is unsustainable?
I can see that the bank would set the overdraft limit to be compatible with the potential selling price of a companies assets because if it went pear shaped, the bank could sell those assets and get their money back.  However, would a problem arise when the value of those assets started diminishing - such as in a property price crash?  Could this lead to the bank reducing the overdraft limit and a company going under?  The nature of capitalism is that there is a boom-bust type of scenario and although governments try to avoid it, all they can really do is limit its impact (unless there are too many external factors outside of their control).
We could well be heading for another economic downturn.  The higher oil prices and other inflationary pressures on the economy could well cause problems with interest rates over the next few years.  The knock on effect could be a drop in property prices (a compay's assets)?  Escalating prices of offices etc cannot be sustainable as things are only worth what people are prepared to pay.
It may be that some of the bigger players have funds put by for such situations but I have my doubts.

[james cairns]

shiner i know of a large national waste deposal company and the manager said that the depot works on 3 per cent profit on jobs  as long as the company made an increase in sales they did not care about anything else as this made the company look as it was advancing forward, in real terms the profit could be eaten up by excess runing costs etc

when companies get to this size and recession kicks in they simply cut costs from all directions making the profits look more healthier and keeping bank managers happy

jinky

[Clive McDonald]

How relevant shiners words are. Almost prophetic. He who laughs last eh? Well done dave. An interesting post by the way.