[CHUCKK]

Does anybody realy know how this will afect our trade-is it all speculation, what are the rules going to be for the every day normal window cleaner who does mostly houses is it time to give up the ghost and get a real job

[The_Fed_Man]

is it time to give up the ghost and get a real job

No Chuck. But now would be a good time to review your working practices and perhaps cut out anything that may be affected, say 2nd floor or above and keep it simple.

The Federation is working to keep things as practical as possible, the majority of members use ladders.  Unless there is an outright ban on ladders sometime in the future (which this isn't) you can't stop a man taking his own chances, but you can stop a man employing another to take chances for him.

The end of the day customers will want window cleaning services in whatever form they take, markets change and the smart change with them.

[Polepro]

Changes in legislation often bring opportunity to those who cease it.

Tom

[Philip Hanson]

cut out anything that may be affected, say 2nd floor or above and keep it simple.

But don't the draft regulations say that there is no height stipulation?  Any height where there is a risk of personal injury will be affected.  This is on page 12 of the consultative document:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/consult/condocs/cd192.pdf

It also says that if a task can be performed without working at height then it should be.

It is simply a fact that window cleaning can be performed from the ground, using a pole system.  "I dont have a pole system" is not a reason that the work has to be done at height.

you can't stop a man taking his own chances

This seems to be a point of some confusion.  The regulations apply to EVERYONE not just employers.  (Employers have the added responsibility of having to conduct a risk assessment.)  

If those taking those chances is breaking the regulations, then thats against the law.

-Philip

[The_Fed_Man]

Philip,

I think you will find ladder use will be within the code of good practice as established by the HSE for a man going about his business.  I do not forsee an outright ban on first floor ladder use if within this code.

Employers Liability insurance will be harder to get, but I would expect Public Liability to be about the same.  this is what I mean by harder for employers.  The EL market could collapse, which will mean trouble for all of us as employers, including Waterfed Poles users.