[Philip Hanson]

Having just read the financial and management commitee report of the Fed, I have one or two observations which I would welcome your comments on:

Management Report
There are 2124 Fed Members.  Less than 1/4 of all window cleaners.

Steve Lowe is being appointed to the Executive Committee.  As a former moderator of this site, I'm sure that Steve will bring forward concerns that have previously been mentioned by members here and elsewhere.  We wish Steve well in this appointment, and hope he will robustly stand up for members interests.

Though the report mentions that the new work at height directive will be dealt with in window talk and by means of newsletters, I have yet to see it discussed there in any detail.  As the federation are claiming to responsible for preventing a total ladder ban, it will be interesting to see exactly what the Fed have managed to negotiate with regard to the new regulations.

Financial Report

The Federation had income of £171,205 for the year ended 2003.  A decrease of 13.5% on last year.

The Federations Overheads increased by 9% on last year.  There is no explanation given as to why this is.  (Postage costs, for example, have almost doubled to £12,164)

Balance Sheet:
I notice there is a bank account balance of £209,799 which has changed little from last year [£229,944]  Any company's financial director would ask if this is a wise use of funds.  Interest from this was £3,094.  Could this cash have been used to serve members interests?  Is there a large project being planned that funds are being accumulated for?

Also there are substantial funds [£117,171]tied up in investments.  If this were an investment club, this might be expected, but only £4,477 of income was generated from these.  Again, is a large project in the pipeline?  Why are these funds not being used for members interests?

what do other members think about these issues?

-Philip

[BeeClean]

Very interesting about steve lowe. rumour has it that the fed encouraged him to staqrt the new forum because mike boxall wouldnt remove topics like this. £10 says youll get contacted by brian dolby shortly with a few choice words. the fed dont like being questioned about the money!! and steve isnt here to edit it!!

interesting topic

come on mike whats the story

[Neil]

A very interesting and informative post Phillip.
I am not a member and at present have no intention of becoming one,
I have a few concerns about the fed which when raised on here were never addressed so for the time being I am wary about joining.
I also wonder why the Fed needs to accumulate such a huge sum of money with no obvious intention in mind.
But I don’t suppose it is any of my business if I am not a member. Having said that are members aware of the reason?
If I am to consider putting my hard earned into something I like to know what will happen to it and if it is not being actively used I would want to know of any future intentions.
I am not decrying the Fed; I am sure they do a lot of good and there reasons for accumulating the funds will be honourable, but if someone on this or other boards raises a concern and the Fed does not answer (officially) then I wonder if they only want me for my cash and don’t what anyone to rock there boat,
At the time of writing this there are 2451 members on this forum many of whom are window cleaners and potential “customers” of the Fed. Is there an official Fed rep on this forum? Why does the Fed not officially answer questions about it when they are put on this board?
We are all very busy but we still find time to ask for and offer help on here, is there no one at the Fed who can spare the time to answer a few questions when put?

[replacement]

I am thinking about joining and if i was honest the comments dont bother me. I mean £50 for a year is not alot of money, and if they dont do nothing for me in the 1st year ill not renew for the 2nd year simple as that really.

As for the investments and monies so what.

Justin

[choice.clean]

i am a member and have been for quite a few years having never contacted them about much over those years i asked for information on wfp's a couple of years ago befor buying one. I can tell you that there is more information on this site than the fed has or has ever published. i will remain a member for marketing purposes but i must say that they are way behind the times when it comes to where the window cleaning industry is going.

[matt]

Very interesting about steve lowe. rumour has it that the fed encouraged him to staqrt the new forum because mike boxall wouldnt remove topics like this. £10 says youll get contacted by brian dolby shortly with a few choice words. the fed dont like being questioned about the money!! and steve isnt here to edit it!!

interesting topic

come on mike whats the story

im very against censorship on the net, afterall the net was set-up for freeodm of speach, and when a message board becomes censored, it then becomes nothing more than a joke, afterall i dont live in china, so why should i eat rice ?? ??

[poleman]

Hi choice-clean,

i would disagree on the point about the Fed being way behind the times when it comes to where the window cleaning industry is going.

It has done more for window cleaners Industry than any other organisation in the UK. because of the new European Regulations. if you read some of the other post on this forum, ladders for the use of window cleaning in holland are to be baned, The Fed is now working behalf of us window cleaners to make sure that we stay in business because of the new working at hights directive.

Philip

Regarding The Fed Overheads increased by 9% i did hear some thing that the fed was sued. but no commit   i dont wont to get sued my self.


andy

[shinnyshinner]

Posted by: matt Posted on: Apr 11th, 2004, 11:42pm
on Apr 11th, 2004, 11:33am, BeeClean wrote:Very interesting about steve lowe. rumour has it that the fed encouraged him to staqrt the new forum because mike boxall wouldnt remove topics like this. £10 says youll get contacted by brian dolby shortly with a few choice words. the fed dont like being questioned about the money!! and steve isnt here to edit it!!

interesting topic    

come on mike whats the story    





im very against censorship on the net, afterall the net was set-up for freeodm of speach, and when a message board becomes censored, it then becomes nothing more than a joke, afterall i dont live in china, so why should i eat rice ?? ??  

Hi matt
I'd take what  has been put here with a pinch of salt mate the wind up was started when steve 1st started up his site.

Hi poleman
I know I have not been on in a while but had to pop in on this one as very interesting wasn’t it by a pole manufacture?
Heard rumours something about it myself.
As well with people making daft comments about ex members deleting posts to do with the fed, and slagging off the fed see the old forum, still has not changed, it’s a shame.
Alan

[Philip Hanson]

Regarding The Fed Overheads increased by 9% i did hear some thing that the fed was sued. but no commit   i dont wont to get sued my self.

Under generally accepted accounting principles this would need to be disclosed under its own heading, and also a note to the accounts.  As there is no reference, I think either

1.this has not happened and is only a rumour

2.It has happened but no settlement has been reached (but in this case, usually a potential liability would be included in the balance sheet, there is none)

3.It has happened but any settlement was met by an insurance policy.

-Philip

[stevekennedy]

I think the postage & printing increases may be due to mailings for the insurance problems that Darwin CLayton Have had. Bit of a shame for all those window cleaners who don't insure through the Fed. They are paying for all this mis-management.

I guess it's just like the taxman. Even if we never claim a benefit in our lives we all have to pay our share. Also the chancellor used to have a fuel tax multiplier. So fuel used to go up every year regardless. This is a bit like the fed subs. They go up by a set percentage every year.

I think we could save money in many ways. For a start, why are they paying rent??? Surely they could BUY a premises.

Perhaps they could start using Email to send out mailings to members who have an email address. This would save a packet and be much quicker.

All that said, however, I will remain a member of the Fed due to advertising and they are there for advice when needed.

Phil, maybe you should voice your concerns at the AGM. Get your name on the agenda  

[BeeClean]

what wind up alan i think its a shame that the fed dont contribite here anymore and i would love to know why they have so much money tied up in investments. i agree with phillip that it should be used to benefit the members. its just one reason why i wouldnt hand over 50 quid of my money isnt it ott who are suing them! maybe thats why they need so much money stashed away

[mickeyfat]

Phillip and Beeclean as you are both  members of www.another forum.co.uk why not go to the site and raise your issues re the another forum forum start up and who owns it ?? And Phillip the federation show is on this month surely as a member you could go to it get the answers you are looking for!!!!!!!!

[shinnyshinner]

Posted by: BeeClean Posted on: Today at 3:13pm
what wind up alan  i think its a shame that the fed dont contribite here anymore and i would love to know why they have so much money tied up in investments. i agree with phillip that it should be used to benefit the members. its just one reason why i wouldnt hand over 50 quid of my money  isnt it ott who are suing them! maybe thats why they need so much money stashed away

Hi BeeClean,
Not that I am wound up but want to know why you have it in for Steve so much remember going through this route of title tattle when Steve 1st started up the new forum. Hasn’t it proved to be the first forum in the U.K to benefit the members with give away’s.

You are right V.G.C.
Would be good to have a debate on cleaningpro, but not know if beeclean will go on suppose you could always ask Mike first to clear it first.
Alan    

[mickeyfat]

Very interesting about steve lowe. rumour has it that the fed encouraged him to staqrt the new forum because mike boxall wouldnt remove topics like this. £10 says youll get contacted by brian dolby shortly with a few choice words. the fed dont like being questioned about the money!! and steve isnt here to edit it!!

interesting topic

come on mike whats the story

ok, so why is there a topic on another forum like this?
http://www.another forum.co.uk/?board=win_clng_issues;action=display;num=1078345242;start=0

[choice.clean]

if i am wrong then tell me where the window federation holds its water fed pole training course :-/ or has it been delegated to bwca?ditto ionics  it seems that the fed are just waiting for everyone else to buy the kit then see where we all end up. as i said before have they got a faq sheet with information for prospective pole system buyers. tell me if i am wrong? but the fed magazine is full of glossy ads for the systems. so they are surely taking revenue from these companies to promote the system.

[shinnyshinner]

Hi all
It does seem a shame that the fed are once again under fire for negative reasons.
I Personally cant see why this debate keeps cropping up the interest of what they spend the money on and more then any thing under attack by non members too.
What does it have to do with you?
The only answer is join up and ask for the annual break down of incoming out going accounts.
I feel some people fill because they pay their £50 so this should allow them on the front seat.
is the logo, discount on equipment and insurance, help advice on cleaning issue matters and someone fighting there corner not enough?
Sean Rimmer a member who was banned from this site  has summed it up see below.
http://www.another forum.co.uk/?board=wfed_poles;action=display;num=1081780683

Have your say.
Cheers
Alan

[replacement]

None of this puts me off i am going to join this month sometime.

(1)End of the day they have some investments as an business, which to me is a wise move. They are also gaining monies from this investment so whats bad about that?
(2)They have an healthy bank balance, which again is an great business move. One's Business will die if running on hard times.

End of the day you pay for services that they provide, some people like that service some dont, not every one is going to be happy. As for brining this up i think its very poor thing to do as alot of these comments are by non members inculding myself.

Now we dont have an thread about how much us as window cleaners make and what overheads have been speant and what investments there are? and asking the questions if people are happy or not. If people think they can do better job then why dont they try? cos its alot harder than you think ill tell you that as i tried with another project a while ago with Gaming cafes ( internet cafes ) and its very very hard.

These issues should have been asked an the annual AGM? if theres one and then you could have got an straight answer.

Anyway my rant over

Justin

PS Starting to get to be an slagging off site this one now i think ill give it a miss for a while.

[sam hughes]

Hi all
It does seem a shame that the fed are once again under fire for negative reasons.
I Personally cant see why this debate keeps cropping up the interest of what they spend the money on and more then any thing under attack by non members too.
What does it have to do with you?
The only answer is join up and ask for the annual break down of incoming out going accounts.
I feel some people fill because they pay their £50 so this should allow them on the front seat.
is the logo, discount on equipment and insurance, help advice on cleaning issue matters and someone fighting there corner not enough?
Sean Rimmer a member who was banned from this site  has summed it up see below.
http://www.another forum.co.uk/?board=wfed_poles;action=display;num=1081780683

Have your say.
Cheers
Alan

alan I think its quite obvoius what it has to do with non members, the fed is meant to serve window cleaners, there is many people who want the fed to work properly, and to be recoqnised but you have to agree alot of people dont think it is currently up to the job, so they dont join.

really you said it all in one "is the logo, discount on equipment and insurance, help advice on cleaning issue matters and someone fighting there corner not enough?"

the logo = 99.9% of the uk population dont know what or who the fed is,
discount on equipment = we all can shop around and beat those prices,
help advice on cleaning issue matters and someone fighting there corner not enough= http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Equipment;action=d isplay;num=1064422952;start=0 the reason why karlosdave coudnt get membership after trying for over a year is because the fed couldnt be bothered to design a application form!

[poleman]

OK, here's some friendly advice . . .

Join up now at £50

Comparative Subs . . .

National Carpet Cleaners Assoc  £255
Painters & Decorators Assoc  £200
British Joiners Assoc  £315
Fed of Plaster & Drywall Cont (ractors?)  £470

Membership Benefits . . .

Association Credibility
Personal ID Card
Use of Fed logo on stationery & vehicles  
Quarterly Trade Mag
Public Liability Scheme
Tailored Personal Accident & Sickness Scheme
DAS Legal Help Line
Discounted Equipment
Corporate Advertising - Yellow Pages
Training & Trade Information & Guidance
Free Entry Trade Show (PLUS Window Cleaning Competition - surely worth £50 for a chance to knock off Terry Burrows's crown - if you can!)
Free Sub to Cleaning & Maintenance Mag
Tender List - Council / Agency area list requests
Group Accident Cover

Now some of these might be of use to you, they might not, but I think we should all want to put something back in, instead of taking. Or even giving nothing at all in the first place.

Rant over - come on, move along there, nothing to see here, it's all finished now.  

[matt]

wasnt brodex banned from here cause he was allways starting arguements ?? ?? ??

Ionic and Pure2O (hi Carl  ) crash test systems, and if i was going down the Van route, i would want to know the system i had just installed wouldnt end up on my lap (like a cheap lap dancer  )


Alan we know your on steve site, but lets not lose sight of why Brodex (dom, sean or whoever was banned here) it was because his was allways trying to stir things up