[JM123]

propole, no I don't have a website running just yet, there's one on the way.

As for the crash testing, don't believe too much of what they tell you - I studied for both my degrees in Engineering (Chemical Eng and Mechatronic), I know that having the tank secured is important but tank chassis's have to be built for the vehicle they are being fitted to in order for the chassis to operate as it should, chances are that the Ionics chassis are pretty safe but and this is a big but, thatcham approval is a very general approval, note how the Ionics systems are NOT TUV approved, TUV being the world authority in these areas.

Ready built?? Any of the system suppliers on here could have a system ready built for you when desired.  So no for anyone thinking I'm just pushing my own systems.

I agree that Ionics systems are reasonably good systems, the marketing does help a bit I suppose, at the end of the day its your own money you are spending, just choose wisely.

[steve m]

theres been a lot said, good and bad about ionics. Has any body, and that includes the FWC and the APWC actually contacted them about it or is it just another whinge thats going to go nowhere, so theres a challenge to someone somewhere. PROVE YOUR WORTH all you associations charge all that money, now go and earn it

[Extremeclean]

Ionics are a company as said and have to make profits even if they do still sell residential kits the odds that one of my customers buying one are very very slim, so im not botherd at all. Things im botherd about are people slagging down wfp especialy high figures in this industry, why is this such a grey area on this forum, you know what im talking about

You are obviously a very highly motivated young man Pro Pole and for what it's worth all the best to you I say. Spend your money on what you want to.  I've read a lot of your posts and not being patronising in anyway I believe you will go a long way in this trade.

You are full of enthusiasm and wish to be seen as a real contender. We need young blood like yours to give us all a kick up the jacksie. The likes of you are the future.

Just one word of advice if you dont mind from someone who has been around just a few more years  in fact decades than you. The likes of yourself are very good marketing tools for this manufacturer. I am not doubting your business accumen because I can see you have it. Branding is very big nowadays and Ionics are masters at it. My advice is build your own branding. Make your logo/name etc completely your own so that it is the first thing that comes into both your existing and prospective customers minds. Use whatever kit you like and dont let anyone put you down for that but do beware of misguided loyalty for a particular brand purely because you see it as the Rolls Royce model.

There are some excellent suppliers of equally as good and cheaper to run kit out there.

Always try to make hard headed decisions and dont get too blinded by the "bells and whistles" 

Before your next move along the road which I am sure you will make do some serious research into the kit. I will betyou a pound to a penny that you could get just as functional, reliable kit and still have plenty left over to pay for a good image consultant or the likes to come up with a great brand that would identify you and you could also probably get a complete van wrap done as well.

Whatever you do I must say I do admire your get up and go.

All the best to you.

[RO-Sheen]

Pro-pole......

If you are thinking of buying microbore look on the Gardiner site. Not sure how their prices compare with other suppliers but they say they have a 'special offer'

[DASERVICES]

  Caustic,

  I presume your hate for Ionics you have one of their systems :-

  My veiws yes very expensive for what they are, but they are running a business
  and have very good business sense.

  For instance their own resin, very expensive but you can buy this on the open
  market for a lot less. But what they have done is designed their system so that
  you buy the consumables direct from them. This is good business sense
  however you are charged the earth for it.

  They will appeal to the big rich commercial firms who think nothing more about
  spending £k+ on a system. This market is now shrinking as it is saturated
  with WFP machines, the next market is us residential guys which will soon
  become huge. Their prices do not match with the up and comimg new businesses
  who I feel will command most of the market share.

  Overall I cannot knock them for their business setup as they would not be No.1
  in the market. However there is one thing that should bother some people
  when looking into their products.

  They will give you the sales pitch the machine costs £6k+ but you will recover
  these costs as you will be faster in your job and more money coming in. In a
  point yes but you will be as fast with a £1k+ machine, therefore it will take you
  6 times longer to recover the costs. By the time you have recovered the costs
  you will need to replace your system, so over in all you are no better off.

  I would advise anyone  who is looking into spending thousands make  sure you
  calculate how long it will take you to pay off the system. This will open your
  eyes, do not fall for the sales pitch.

  In the end each system what you buy will give you 000 TDS, yes it will increase
  your earnings but your outgoings will increase. For us residential guys I worked
  out it will take me 1.5 yrs to recover the £1k spent on my system. It would have
  taken me a lot longer buying a £6k+ system.

  Each to their own opinion but we are all here to make money to support our
  families, but it does make sense to spend some time and calculate things.
  Beware of the sales pitch.

  Doug

[steve m]

What more can any one say on this matter. If you dont like the manufacturer or their product then dont buy it , its as simple as that. All the advertising people like you and me are giving them is imense. Maybe its not all good, but sooner or later someone is going to have a look, and end up buying the product if the salesman is good enough.Istead of slagging off the companies we dilike, why are we not helpin others by singing the praises of the companies we believe in

[Dominic]

Hi guys,

I'm one of the ones that spent a fortune on a system. There are aspects I wasn't pleased with that I have changed but the positive sides of a well branded system are that you can use the bullpoop to your advantage.

For example I won a large contract just because I had a thermopure system and the other guy didn't. Obviously I milked the fact in the meeting room with the client but at the end of the day I won. Everyone knows that people are won over by the bullpoop and the pretty packaging.

Looking back I'm sure I could have achieve excellent image and branding alot cheaper. All I know is that it works. I learnt this buy paying alot of money and learning from ionics. My philosophy is that there is always a positive side to every situation. You just have to realise it and use it to your advantage.

Would I buy Ionics again though...Hmmm


Dom

[Trevor Knight]

Hi Dom,

I would just like to ask how you know it was purely down to your thermopure system that you won the contract.

I only ask because I have been involved in commercial contracts for many years and have yet to lose a job or quotation just because of a brand name? To be honest, most clients I have spoken to are really only interested in H&S and Cost. I have never come across a client who has researched a particular make of machinery to award a contract based on this.

Are you sure you didn't get the contract based on the fact that you operate WFP instead of "Traditional" ?

Just interested, thats all?

Cheers ,

Trev

[D woods]

Hi Guys
Two months ago we won a nice contract worth £32,000 per year
and when we did the presentation of our bid  the client asked if he could see one of our van systems.

We use Ionics and Omnipole for our systems not the cheapest but they look very nice in our Mercedes vans.

Now we may have won that contract anyway even if we had a Bert and Ernie
system , but then again we might not have.

[Moderator David@stives]

David

No disrespect , i know exactly where you are coming from, but you are in a different league to most of us on here.
I agree if you are chasing commercial , A good image shows your professionalism and the strength of your company.

The mistake that ad made was to assume every joe blogg window cleaner wants to  become mr successful business man, most are happy and content with what they have got.

Saying all that, i am going to buy a brand new van and a top brand wfp system in the next year.

I will go for an Ionics or a concept20 system , because in my opinion these are the only systems with the wow factor and look more professional than any other.

Remember this is just my opinion.

[DASERVICES]

  Dave,

  You must be reeling the money in, tell us your secret 

  Doug

[D woods]

Hi David
That is a fair point you make however I would have thought  most window cleaners would like to make the most profit that they can
to do this I think you need the best equipment.

I dont think you will regret upgrading to an Ionic or Concept 2o system.

As well as our window cleaning business we sell window cleaning equipment as well, and we get many window cleaners coming in to buy
stuff. Alot of these guys have systems they made themselves and some of them are so bad you would not belive.

One guy had a wheely bin with the wheels removed in the back of an Escort Van held down with two bungee straps

[P®oPole™]

Extremeclean thanks for your advice and your kind comments.

Caustic I agree the overall package play's a part in winning a contract but that includes the van and system, obviously a guy in a car with a backpack can do the same job but image says alot these days.

[Moderator David@stives]

Have a look at the new zero waste system and tell me that you wont be proud to have that in the back of your van or that it wont impress your customers. It may do the same job as a diy but it looks damn fine, so does the concept20 package ,especially the van livery.

[P®oPole™]

David,

The Pro7 "the green system" is the ultimate system i dont care what anyone says you cant get the same or make your own to be the same, no other system is a hot water and zero waste.

why is it cheaper than the thermo pure im confused?

[matt]

selling kits to residential customers, believe me if they could sell a kit to every commercial customer me and you have do you think they would consider us?

this is the next market they will take on, they will sell all the systems to Window cleaners, then move onto the home owners / comercail properties caretakers etc etc

sell to window cleaners, then cut our throats

[matt]

David,

The Pro7 "the green system" is the ultimate system i dont care what anyone says you cant get the same or make your own to be the same, no other system is a hot water and zero waste.

why is it cheaper than the thermo pure im confused?

gardeniers have a zero waste RO coming soon

[matt]

ive said it once or twice Before

end of the day

Tank with pure water in

pump

pole

brush

000 TDS water

same results, the advert is a joke, its slagging EVERYONE off who doesnt use Iwrongics

[Pat Purcell]

You would think that for most people its not their inability to wash their own windows that has them hire you to do it its more the time it takes them im sure a few people will buy the home system and convince themselves for a while that its the bees knees but will tire of all the checking tds and such that you wfp folks do the only problem i see with it is if they make a mess of their own windows a few times using it will they be harder to convince that a professional can do a better job or will they hold out for a trad window cleaner

[P®oPole™]

Matt Im intrested to see how gardiners R.O works althought that still wont be a hot system aswell will it.