[dd]

Looking at getting a new van and system later this year (I will source van).

I know Grippa have come in for a lot of criticism in recent times but I think their system is good, especially I think their tank is well secured and not top heavy (not upright tank).

Other options I would consider are Pure 2o and Aquafactors at Bassingstoke.

Would be a 500l delivery only system in a lwb Berlingo (or partner, Combo)

Any thoughts?

[martinw]

Whichever way you go bear in mind insurance companies are  not keen anymore on diy version and to lesser degree custom built options.
I have had grippa for 11 years in two vans.  Only downside is water always leaks out from lid area when filled to brim when driving.  Internal baffle inserts split within two  or three years - not sure if these tanks are still supplied with those nowadays.
Good  luck with choices.

[Slacky]

Looking at getting a new van and system later this year (I will source van).

I know Grippa have come in for a lot of criticism in recent times but I think their system is good, especially I think their tank is well secured and not top heavy (not upright tank).

Other options I would consider are Pure 2o and Aquafactors at Bassingstoke.

Would be a 500l delivery only system in a lwb Berlingo (or partner, Combo)

Any thoughts?

I wouldn’t use Aquafactors. I operated in Basingstoke where they are based for 26 years. whenever I went there for parts and supplies they were always turning another newbie over.


I had a 650 litre system fitted in my van which I bought from new and wouldn’t have dreamt of using them to fit it out.

[Scottish Cleaning Service]

I got Grippa to fit a 650l hot water van system with electric reels. Had many teething problems as Grippa was going through a hard time. Oliver was saying they have moved to a new industrial unit and doing really well. My system hasn't let me down now and had it 6 years. If I have any queries then just send them an email and usually get an answer right away. The only thing is, you will need to wait 3 months because they are very busy so book in well in advance.

Grippa has came on leaps and bounds since the old days and I'm glad I built a bridge with Oliver.

[Pete Thompson]

I have a 700 litre pure2o (Ionics) system. Absolutely brilliant, never had any problems in 7 years.

I just got a new van, and I had the system moved from the old one. Still no problems. Highly recommend!

Ionics have a network of installers, so you don’t necessarily have to go Swindon if it’s not your nearest.

(And don’t bother with any system that isn’t crash-tested, you won’t be able to get insurance to drive it. Aquafactors, which used to be tucker pole U.K., are just plastic frames screwed to the floor. Death trap and uninsurable)

[AuRavelling79]

I have a 700 litre pure2o (Ionics) system. Absolutely brilliant, never had any problems in 7 years.

I just got a new van, and I had the system moved from the old one. Still no problems. Highly recommend!

Ionics have a network of installers, so you don’t necessarily have to go Swindon if it’s not your nearest.

(And don’t bother with any system that isn’t crash-tested, you won’t be able to get insurance to drive it. Aquafactors, which used to be tucker pole U.K., are just plastic frames screwed to the floor. Death trap and uninsurable)

That bit in red is a falsehood.

If I was starting from scratch again I would without hesitation build my own system.

I have just renewed insurance THIS WEEK on my 13 year old van with its declared self built system.

[dd]

Thanks for reply's. Looking like Pure 2o or Grippa, probably won't be until September.

[Spruce]

I have a 700 litre pure2o (Ionics) system. Absolutely brilliant, never had any problems in 7 years.

I just got a new van, and I had the system moved from the old one. Still no problems. Highly recommend!

Ionics have a network of installers, so you don’t necessarily have to go Swindon if it’s not your nearest.

(And don’t bother with any system that isn’t crash-tested, you won’t be able to get insurance to drive it. Aquafactors, which used to be tucker pole U.K., are just plastic frames screwed to the floor. Death trap and uninsurable)

That bit in red is a falsehood.

If I was starting from scratch again I would without hesitation build my own system.

I have just renewed insurance THIS WEEK on my 13 year old van with its declared self built system.

This is just my opinion and thoughts.

We live in a world of change and uncertainty.

I can eventually see a move by insurance companies to tighten up on what tanks are fitted (crash tested) and how they are secured in the future.
IMHO, the only way for them to know is if they have been professionally made and fitted by a recognized supplier with certification.
(I can't believe that the manufacturing and supply wfp industry hasn't lobbied for this requirement with insurance companies, as it would be a money spinner.)

My 650 litre Wydale tank has a DIY welded tank copied from an old Purefreedom crash tested frame and DIY installed in my van with 6 HT bolts through the chassis and another 4 HT bolts through the floor with spacer plates. I also fitted additional steel braces to the frame.  My insurance company asked me if the tank was professionally fitted when I joined them about 8 years ago. I said yes because I know what I'm doing, but if they had asked for proof, I couldn't supply that.

I did lots of welding in my youth in early South African days which proved to be very strong, but that wouldn't count in their eyes.

You had an accident with your van and your current tank setup didn't move. That's great. The tank proved to be correctly fitted and secured. But if the insurance company asked for proof that the tank is securely fitted now if it was a DIY fit, how can you prove that it is. Does past history count?

In my case, would DIY fitting a crash tested PF tank frame be acceptable. I can't think it would be.

Honestly, my remaining working life is now very short, so if my current insurance now requires proof my system is crash tested and fitted correctly in the next few years, I would have to ask myself if I needed the hassle and the expense of complying. You are also planning your retirement, so could face them same problem.

My first thought would be to look for an insurance company who would be happy with my system, but failing that, I would seriously have to consider throwing in the towel.

I honestly hope it doesn't come to this, but I also realize that something has to be done to stop all these cowboys with the improper secured tanks. A few in our area are still using 1000 litre IBC tanks held in with rope and/or ratchet straps secured to the van's load securing hooks in the floor. They seem oblivious to the danger, despite this accident and death of an employee working for Teesside Window Cleaning happening on our doorstep.

[AuRavelling79]

Well Spruce, I think the problem is overblown.

If people were dying in any numbers due to insecure loads - whether window cleaning related or not - then insurance companies would reflect that.

Manufacturers of vehicles would have to provide stronger load-strapping points and bulkheads. (Are bulkheads legally required anyway?)

Because responsible owners DO provide extra bolts, cages, baffled tanks etc, and DON'T put IBC's with the base strapped to loading points the injuries per year from accidents are tiny.

Remember when every month we would hear of ladder falls on here? I believe trad window cleaners can get insurance even now. But they pay higher premiums.

I think we hear more about electrocution from wfp than we do about death from insecure and unsuitable tanks.

And that includes muppets putting IBC's in their vans.

My experience was that I was able to get insurance from three different brokers with my tank declared as 'sitting in a welded frame, strapped with two triple wound 5 tonne straps around the rear cross member of the frame bolted through the floor with 8 high tensile bolts with spreader plates and up against the factory fitted bulkhead'

One asked about the frame construction I told them I 'took it to a welder who made it to fit the tank and used a 5" x 5" girder as the rear cross member for it to be bolted in my van'.

One asked whether the tank was strapped or bolted. I said both.

My insurance this year was £110 cheaper than last year.

[Scottish Cleaning Service]

Believe it of not, insurance companies rule the world. They tell Governments what to do, if the Gov fails to act then they remove their insurance. Insurance is a gamble and insurance companies want to be on the side of minimal risk. At the moment there is not many accidents involving wfp window cleaners. Once this rises if it does then insurance companies will act. The church read out the statement from their insurance company to get building insurance. They must get their gutters cleared annually and examine flat roofs for damage.

I only know this when my mates at the fire station were telling me how the 1977 nine week fire strike got resolved. Businesses were getting torched every night and no one was investigating the fire and the insurance had to pay out. Lloyds of London told the PM the strike ends or we go bankrupt and no insurance will be underwritten. The strike ended the next day. I now see everything revolving around money.                                                                                                                       

[AuRavelling79]

Believe it of not, insurance companies rule the world. They tell Governments what to do, if the Gov fails to act then they remove their insurance. Insurance is a gamble and insurance companies want to be on the side of minimal risk. At the moment there is not many accidents involving wfp window cleaners. Once this rises if it does then insurance companies will act. The church read out the statement from their insurance company to get building insurance. They must get their gutters cleared annually and examine flat roofs for damage.

I only know this when my mates at the fire station were telling me how the 1977 nine week fire strike got resolved. Businesses were getting torched every night and no one was investigating the fire and the insurance had to pay out. Lloyds of London told the PM the strike ends or we go bankrupt and no insurance will be underwritten. The strike ended the next day. I now see everything revolving around money.                                                                                                                       

You got anything to back this up?

Specifically the bit about Lloyds of London telling Callaghan in 1977 that the strikes must end?

[dd]

Whichever way you go bear in mind insurance companies are  not keen anymore on diy version and to lesser degree custom built options.
I have had grippa for 11 years in two vans.  Only downside is water always leaks out from lid area when filled to brim when driving.  Internal baffle inserts split within two  or three years - not sure if these tanks are still supplied with those nowadays.
Good  luck with choices.

According to their website the tanks and frames have a 5 year guarantee. Did they replace the tank for you as the baffles split, or did it not cause you any issues in practical terms?

[dd]

I have a 700 litre pure2o (Ionics) system. Absolutely brilliant, never had any problems in 7 years.

I just got a new van, and I had the system moved from the old one. Still no problems. Highly recommend!

Ionics have a network of installers, so you don’t necessarily have to go Swindon if it’s not your nearest.

(And don’t bother with any system that isn’t crash-tested, you won’t be able to get insurance to drive it. Aquafactors, which used to be tucker pole U.K., are just plastic frames screwed to the floor. Death trap and uninsurable)

Is that a delivery only system?

[Scottish Cleaning Service]

Believe it of not, insurance companies rule the world. They tell Governments what to do, if the Gov fails to act then they remove their insurance. Insurance is a gamble and insurance companies want to be on the side of minimal risk. At the moment there is not many accidents involving wfp window cleaners. Once this rises if it does then insurance companies will act. The church read out the statement from their insurance company to get building insurance. They must get their gutters cleared annually and examine flat roofs for damage.

I only know this when my mates at the fire station were telling me how the 1977 nine week fire strike got resolved. Businesses were getting torched every night and no one was investigating the fire and the insurance had to pay out. Lloyds of London told the PM the strike ends or we go bankrupt and no insurance will be underwritten. The strike ended the next day. I now see everything revolving around money.                                                                                                                       

You got anything to back this up?

Specifically the bit about Lloyds of London telling Callaghan in 1977 that the strikes must end?

A Governments job is provide stability, nothing else. That's the reason Truss had to go. The city told BOE she is destroying our bond market and the 1922 committee ordered her to stand down. Our 2003 Fire strike only ended when Blair came back from a meeting with Bush who told him get ready because we go to war next week. He came back and told Prescott the strike ends as we need all the troops possible and we couldn't believe our strike ended on the Tuesday.

Do you think the PM makes decisions? They are told what to do whether they like it or not. Do you think Starmer wants to cut benefits? If he made decisions he would help Waspi Women, maintain heating allowance, not raise NI contributions, raise defence spending, maintain foreign aid.

I thought everyone knew they are just figureheads and all the Audit Agencies tell them what they need to do balance the books. If you want to pass an Act then one needs to know what Bill we will get each year to see if we can afford it.

If Lloyds of London wants to crash the EV market then all they do is cancel underwriting EV insurance. Insurance companies won't be able to provide cover and no one will be able to drive on public roads legally. Rishi got told to raise the EV van weight to 4,250kgs from 3,500kgs so the manufacturers could install heavier batteries providing longer range.

In my watch we had a councillor who was the leader of the council and it was interesting listening to him.

[AuRavelling79]

So ... back to Lloyds of London in 1977 telling Callaghan the strike ends.

Anything to back that up?

[martinw]

Whichever way you go bear in mind insurance companies are  not keen anymore on diy version and to lesser degree custom built options.
I have had grippa for 11 years in two vans.  Only downside is water always leaks out from lid area when filled to brim when driving.  Internal baffle inserts split within two  or three years - not sure if these tanks are still supplied with those nowadays.
Good  luck with choices.

According to their website the tanks and frames have a 5 year guarantee. Did they replace the tank for you as the baffles split, or did it not cause you any issues in practical terms?

The tank did not split - they used to have an option for plastic inserts baffles connected with two m6 bolts and  20mm washers to stop sloshing water . This solution was subpar resulting in plastic shearing . Those baffles did nothing to stop water leaking through vented lid. All accessories have much shorter warranty. Those crappy insert had to be removed and replaced with better diy solution resulting in less water surge movement during breaking.
The tank itself is well built.