[Spruce]

Sounds pretty annoying!

It is, but this is the first one we've bought so we expected that all the hassles were going to come out on this one. The good news is that there's someone out there willing to help us with the job. In five years, there'll be far more people looking for the work - at the moment it's mostly main dealers and, let's face it, if they turn down our money today someone will be in to have their Vauxhall serviced tomorrow. As independents have to deal with BEVs more and more there'll be competition from people who actually want to make money and retain customers.

Vin

Thinking outside the box that the majority of us use when it comes to fitting a tank in a van.

Is it possible to secure the tank other than through the floor utilising (e.g.) where the bulkhead is installed and/or sills, the cross member where the rear bumper affixes to/wheelarches etc.

Using chains/welded struts?

Obviously a professional engineer would need to be consulted.

Just something rattling in my mind in that if you were a courier and delivering say a 500L tank of juice then you wouldn't HAVE  to (legally) modify a van at all.

And for clarity - I personally WOULD want sensible fixing of a tank. More so for an employee or franchise.

Were you thinking along the line of skid plates? Fit the tank to a frame that has 'outriggers' in exactly the right places so the battery doesn't have to be dropped for access.
Who was that supplier who put their tanks on a frame? I don't think they are in business any longer. (Omnipole?)

[Scottish Cleaning Service]

I have Grippa's 650l tank and it sits in a frame and the frame is fixed to floor with bolts through spreader plates.

In an accident, you can get charged with having an unsafe load. If I was an employee and I got injured then I would be instructing my lawyer to go down this road. So with that in mind I would only have my vans fitted with crash test tanks.

Here's a thing no one bar me has thought of. If I change vans then who do I get to swap the tank over? I could do the task myself but would that satisfy the courts? If I get Oliver to do it and have the paper work from Grippa then its all legal when I have an accident. It also keeps me legal with my insurance policy.
One to think about.

Remember, these things only arise in a court case or when the insurance has to be paid out and that's when they look at all the small print to see if they can wriggle out of it and blame the owner.

[Stoots]

Exactly what spruce says. Weld or bolt the tank frame to another frame or skid then bolt that in where you can.

I've just done the same thing on my pug partner saved dropping the tank simply  made a tank frame then welded it to sub frame made from box section.

[Bungle]

I have Grippa's 650l tank and it sits in a frame and the frame is fixed to floor with bolts through spreader plates.

In an accident, you can get charged with having an unsafe load. If I was an employee and I got injured then I would be instructing my lawyer to go down this road. So with that in mind I would only have my vans fitted with crash test tanks.

Here's  thing no one bar me has thought of. If I change vans then who do I get to swap the tank over? I could do the task myself but would that satisfy the courts? If I get Oliver to do it and have the paper work from Grippa then its all legal when I have an accident. It also keeps me legal with my insurance policy.
One to think about.

Remember, these things only arise in a court case or when the insurance has to be paid out and that's when they look at all the small print to see if they can wriggle out of it and blame the owner.

I think you might be wrong in your assumption there. But give yourself a pat on the back anyway.

[AuRavelling79]

In answer to Spruce. I hadn't thought any further than what I posted.

But bigger brains like yours are!

Which is good.

 

[Perfect Windows]

I'm not going to raise the whole issue of tank safety again: there have been dozens of threads on the subject and it all becomes heated, every time. However, I do know I don't have the skills to judge whether a particular solution will do the job. I can't judge the strength of a weld under a 20t force. It's easy to consider how you stop a load sliding under braking. It's a completely different kettle of fish working out what a tank will do to its mountings with the weight of a couple of elephants hanging off them.

What I do have is a system that's been crash tested and that I know how to refit.I've spoken to Alex and it's straightforward. Amazingly so. Brilliantly so.

So I'm resigned to dropping the battery and fitting the tank I have in exactly the way I know it was designed to be fitted.

I'm not running down anyone who fits a tank in any particular way. This decision is purely about what I'm happy with.

However, for the longer term, I'm looking to come up with a solution for when the franchisees come to replace ICE with BEV vans. It's a major problem looming for the tank manufacturers. As I've said before, in a handful of years this is going to have to be solved.

Vin

[KS Cleaning]

Are you charging from home? Do you have to calculate daily charging time multiplied by £/kWh to put down as a business expense?

[Spruce]

Are you charging from home? Do you have to calculate daily charging time multiplied by £/kWh to put down as a business expense?

Home chargers now have to have a separate smart meter, so these costs will be billed separately. You will know exactly what electricity your van has used each month.

The problem could be that in the future, Vin's private car could also be electric using the same charge point. I don't know how that would work.

[Perfect Windows]

Are you charging from home? Do you have to calculate daily charging time multiplied by £/kWh to put down as a business expense?

Home chargers now have to have a separate smart meter, so these costs will be billed separately. You will know exactly what electricity your van has used each month.

The problem could be that in the future, Vin's private car could also be electric using the same charge point. I don't know how that would work.

I believe the software that runs the charger knows what kind of vehicle is plugged into it, so separating the two sets of bills is pretty straightforward.

As long as I have the amount of electricity and the unit price it should be straightforward. Though at about 3p a mile maximum and 3,000 miles a year it's only going to be about £90.

Vin

[Spruce]

Are you charging from home? Do you have to calculate daily charging time multiplied by £/kWh to put down as a business expense?

Home chargers now have to have a separate smart meter, so these costs will be billed separately. You will know exactly what electricity your van has used each month.

The problem could be that in the future, Vin's private car could also be electric using the same charge point. I don't know how that would work.

I believe the software that runs the charger knows what kind of vehicle is plugged into it, so separating the two sets of bills is pretty straightforward.

As long as I have the amount of electricity and the unit price it should be straightforward. Though at about 3p a mile maximum and 3,000 miles a year it's only going to be about £90.

Vin

Wow. Thanks for that info.

[Scottish Cleaning Service]

I have solar panels which produce 10kw a day on average from now till October. Only use 2 kws a day so rest goes back to the grid. If I had EV van then I would be looking at installing a 10kw battery and switching to Octopus energy to get the 9p per Kw charge between 11pm and 5am to charge the van and even the battery.
I now have a steady stream of solar cleans till May which I clean every year. New houses all have some solar panels and I have to take out my 35 foot pole to clean the veluxes and I give the panels a once over each month from now till September, its a nice selling point on the new estate I clean. Don't think anyone else does it and it take's a minute.

[Bungle]

I have solar panels which produce 10kw a day on average from now till October. Only use 2 kws a day so rest goes back to the grid. If I had EV van then I would be looking at installing a 10kw battery and switching to Octopus energy to get the 9p per Kw charge between 11pm and 5am to charge the van and even the battery.
I now have a steady stream of solar cleans till May which I clean every year. New houses all have some solar panels and I have to take out my 35 foot pole to clean the veluxes and I give the panels a once over each month from now till September, its a nice selling point on the new estate I clean. Don't think anyone else does it and it take's a minute.

  Most houses have 16 panels. Are you charging to clean these every time you get your heavy 35' pole out? Have you been on an SS course?

[AuRavelling79]

This thread is primarily about electric vans. Please stay on that topic.

[the king]

i would be interested to here anyone who runs a hot water system in a electric van how it affects the battery as they draw a lot of power i saw streamline installed one in a vivaro e  i herd 40 miles per charge in winter 80 miles summer !!

[AuRavelling79]

i would be interested to here anyone who runs a hot water system in a electric van how it affects the battery as they draw a lot of power i saw streamline installed one in a vivaro e  i herd 40 miles per charge in winter 80 miles summer !!

I'd be interested to know how they installed the tank as well.

[Perfect Windows]

I'd be interested to know how they installed the tank as well.

Old tank cage being removed from our van today. It has a few patches of cosmetic rust so we're giving it a full repaint then we're off next Wednesday to have the battery dropped and the cage fitted to the new van (hopefully).

So hopefully by next week we'll at least know how easy a Grippatank is to fit in a Stellantis EV. Or if it simply won't fit, which is a possibility.

Vin

[Perfect Windows]

i would be interested to here anyone who runs a hot water system in a electric van how it affects the battery as they draw a lot of power i saw streamline installed one in a vivaro e  i herd 40 miles per charge in winter 80 miles summer !!

Let's say you're raising the temperature of 500 litres of water by 30C.

Raising the temp of one litre of water by 1C requires 4,200 joules of energy. So to do 500l x 30C would need 63million joules.

1kWh (3,600 seconds in an hour x 1,000 joules) = 3.6 million joules so heating that much water would take 17.5kWh*, which (with a 20% inefficiency built in) is roughly a quarter of a full battery charge on a 75kWh Vivaro. Which would take the range down from 210 to about 150. That 210 is an empty van, in summer.

However...

With a 7kW charger on your drive you're only putting 35kWh into the battery in a five hour cheap rate charging window. At that rate, half of that is going into the water heater, so your ability to do longer runs a few days a week would be severely hit.

On the other side of that, the day of water heating on that cheap rate electricity, is only costing you about £1.50. On public charging at 79p per kWH, that would be £14 a day.

Sounds possible (but only just).

Vin

* All calculations my own so best checked if you're making any decisions based on this.

[Perfect Windows]

An additional thought. If someone's fitted an electric water heater running from the main battery of the van, they're working with a 450v DC power supply that's extremely well protected and isolated from interference so I sincerely hope they know what they're doing. Good luck claiming on your battery warranty if there's an issue and good luck if you suffer a 450v shock.

Vin

[Scottish Cleaning Service]

I'd be interested to know how they installed the tank as well.

Old tank cage being removed from our van today. It has a few patches of cosmetic rust so we're giving it a full repaint then we're off next Wednesday to have the battery dropped and the cage fitted to the new van (hopefully).

So hopefully by next week we'll at least know how easy a Grippatank is to fit in a Stellantis EV. Or if it simply won't fit, which is a possibility.

Vin

Have you verified with your van insurance that you are changing over the system yourself? Good to know how they respond to this. Better to know you are covered in the event of an accident. 😉

[AuRavelling79]

An additional thought. If someone's fitted an electric water heater running from the main battery of the van, they're working with a 450v DC power supply that's extremely well protected and isolated from interference so I sincerely hope they know what they're doing. Good luck claiming on your battery warranty if there's an issue and good luck if you suffer a 450v shock.

Vin

If you are electrically heating the water and your van is on the drive for charging its batteries then a seperate 240 volt immersion heater overnight could do the heavy lifting for you.

Then any element run off of the van battery could be used as necessary later in the working day just to keep the temperature up.