[Spruce]

Back in 2023, I started a post regarding the death of Andrew Langstaff who was working for Teesside Window Cleaning.

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=223220.0

A few days ago, an inquest into Andrew's death was held in a Middlesbrough court over 2 days.

Here is our local newspaper's report of the proceedings.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/andrew-langstaff-inquest-billingham-crash-30801868

The newspaper reports that Huran Hussain testified that strapping an IBC tank into the back of a van was common practice. It isn't. He testified that he believed the straps were safe and was not aware of any other methods used to secure the cylinders at the time. He said: "I wish at the time I knew how dangerous they could be." Absolute lies. Many on this and the other forum warned him about this unsafe practice numerous times, but he chose to ignore the advice. Anyone who commented against what he was doing was seen by him as an idiot.

I'm saddened that this situation has led to a window cleaner's death, but glad that this ratchet strapping an IBC tank down has been shown to be an 'inappropriate' way of securing the tank by the crash investigators.

I spoke to one of his ex-employees a few months ago. He has a Transit van with an IBC tank ratchet strapped in the back. I pointed out how dangerous this was. He said this setup was just temporary. I saw his van a couple of days ago and he still has the IBC tank strapped in. I honestly hope the outcome of this inquest makes him and any others sit up and rectify this.

Interestingly, the investigators also stated that the van was being driven erratically just before the crash. There was no indication that there was drink involved, but the comment made was that Google maps was on his phone and that a photo had been accessed during the journey. Was Andrew distracted by his phone?

[M.c.s]

There must have been cheap ratchet straps
Iam an ex wagon driver and other things  used them many times on 40 ft platforms never an issue.   

[windowswashed]

All the haulage industry use ratchet straps. It's a case of using the right tonnage  straps safely for the load being carried.

IBC tanks even in a frame are too weak, as the tubing is very thin and easily crushable when ratchet strapped around the framework.  There is very little strength in them frames and should never be used even temporarily for window cleaning.

[M.c.s]

All the haulage industry use ratchet straps. It's a case of using the right tonnage  straps safely for the load being carried.

IBC tanks even in a frame are too weak, as the tubing is very thin and easily crushable when ratchet strapped around the framework.  There is very little strength in them frames and should never be used even temporarily for window cleaning.

I agree what your saying even taking them off lorries on the fork lift there not good

[Spruce]

All the haulage industry use ratchet straps. It's a case of using the right tonnage  straps safely for the load being carried.

IBC tanks even in a frame are too weak, as the tubing is very thin and easily crushable when ratchet strapped around the framework.  There is very little strength in them frames and should never be used even temporarily for window cleaning.

The other important factor with the haulage industry is that the ratchet straps are secured to very strong hooks down the side of the trailer.

I've seen them just using luggage ratchet straps onto the eye hooks on the van's floor. They have absolutely no strength at all, even if the ratchet straps are heavy duty.

Transits are know to be rust buckets, which includes the van's floor.

[The Jester of Wibbly]

I do wonder if anyone has given chains any thoughts to replace straps?

That's how skip companies operate.

[CleanClear]

Interestingly, the investigators also stated that the van was being driven erratically just before the crash. There was no indication that there was drink involved, but the comment made was that Google maps was on his phone and that a photo had been accessed during the journey. Was Andrew distracted by his phone?

They go a lot further than your short synopsis here don't they ?

Witnesses described the driver "swerving all over the road" before he crashed into an oncoming Citroen C3, on Sandy Lane West, while he was on the wrong side of the road.

dashcam footage appeared to show the dad moving across the path of another driver on the Billingham Arms roundabout and narrowly missing mounting the kerb and pedestrian barriers.

He said the driver then straddled the central white lines before returning to the correct side of the road. "There are several occasions along that journey prior to the collision where Andrew's vehicle drifts across the centre road markings," the investigator explained. "At one point it is almost fully in the opposing carriageway for his direction for travel."

Mr Woodhouse said investigators revealed Mr Langstaff's phone map app was in use up until the point of collision and a photos app had also been accessed during the journey. The jury heard he was on the wrong side of the road when he crashed into another vehicle and tragically died from his injuries.

Whilst its true, IBC's  have no real strength or integrity to be ratcheted down the real issue here is driving on the wrong side of the road will probably get you killed anyway.

[Splash and dash]

Interestingly, the investigators also stated that the van was being driven erratically just before the crash. There was no indication that there was drink involved, but the comment made was that Google maps was on his phone and that a photo had been accessed during the journey. Was Andrew distracted by his phone?

They go a lot further than your short synopsis here don't they ?

Witnesses described the driver "swerving all over the road" before he crashed into an oncoming Citroen C3, on Sandy Lane West, while he was on the wrong side of the road.

dashcam footage appeared to show the dad moving across the path of another driver on the Billingham Arms roundabout and narrowly missing mounting the kerb and pedestrian barriers.

He said the driver then straddled the central white lines before returning to the correct side of the road. "There are several occasions along that journey prior to the collision where Andrew's vehicle drifts across the centre road markings," the investigator explained. "At one point it is almost fully in the opposing carriageway for his direction for travel."

Mr Woodhouse said investigators revealed Mr Langstaff's phone map app was in use up until the point of collision and a photos app had also been accessed during the journey. The jury heard he was on the wrong side of the road when he crashed into another vehicle and tragically died from his injuries.

Whilst its true, IBC's  have no real strength or integrity to be ratcheted down the real issue here is driving on the wrong side of the road will probably get you killed anyway.

But why was he weaving all over the road ? Probably due to the tank moving causing the vehicle to become unstable with water sloshing around in an unsecured tank would be the most reasonable explanation.

[jay moley]

I have a DIY setup and use a ratchet to secure my van.

What are the other options?

[M.c.s]

I have a DIY setup and use a ratchet to secure my van.

What are the other options?

Whatever size tank you have you can buy cages separately  and bolt them in yourself

[CleanClear]

But why was he weaving all over the road ? Probably due to the tank moving causing the vehicle to become unstable with water sloshing around in an unsecured tank would be the most reasonable explanation.

Mr Woodhouse said the cylinder was 90-95% full and weighed around 800kg

[Splash and dash]

But why was he weaving all over the road ? Probably due to the tank moving causing the vehicle to become unstable with water sloshing around in an unsecured tank would be the most reasonable explanation.

Mr Woodhouse said the cylinder was 90-95% full and weighed around 800kg

If the tank was un baffled then even that full you will still get surge in the tank causing it to become unstable

[Spruce]

Interestingly, the investigators also stated that the van was being driven erratically just before the crash. There was no indication that there was drink involved, but the comment made was that Google maps was on his phone and that a photo had been accessed during the journey. Was Andrew distracted by his phone?

They go a lot further than your short synopsis here don't they ?

Witnesses described the driver "swerving all over the road" before he crashed into an oncoming Citroen C3, on Sandy Lane West, while he was on the wrong side of the road.

dashcam footage appeared to show the dad moving across the path of another driver on the Billingham Arms roundabout and narrowly missing mounting the kerb and pedestrian barriers.

He said the driver then straddled the central white lines before returning to the correct side of the road. "There are several occasions along that journey prior to the collision where Andrew's vehicle drifts across the centre road markings," the investigator explained. "At one point it is almost fully in the opposing carriageway for his direction for travel."

Mr Woodhouse said investigators revealed Mr Langstaff's phone map app was in use up until the point of collision and a photos app had also been accessed during the journey. The jury heard he was on the wrong side of the road when he crashed into another vehicle and tragically died from his injuries.

Whilst its true, IBC's  have no real strength or integrity to be ratcheted down the real issue here is driving on the wrong side of the road will probably get you killed anyway.

What you say is absolutely true. But it's was the tank that crushed and killed him. His driving erratically was the death trigger. Had he been driving correctly and responsibly, then this wouldn't have happened.

His driving erratically was his fault, but the way the tank was secured was Hussain's fault. He provided his employee with an unsafe van.

The lesson for us all is that a tank not correctly installed can crush us against the steering wheel. A driver's airbag will probably make things worse when that activates. We also can't really on a bulkhead to save us.

We don't know what the outcome would have been had the tank been correctly fitted, but it behooves each of us to drive as carefully as we can and always focus on driving safely. Don't let our mobile phones distract us when driving.

[Slacky]

When I operated in the UK my neighbour, a guy called Ryan Pym (he owned Taskforce UK) had an old rust bucket transit with a 1,000 litre tank strapped in to it with ratchet straps. It was a death trap, but of course he never drove it, it was what he gave the local junkies to go to London in to do their commercial work.

[Stoots]

Millions of miles will have been covered  over many years with window cleaners with strapped tanks. I'm sure we all know they aren't perfectly safe in an accident. But what is safe in an accident? Driving head on Into something at any kind of speed is very likely to cause injury or death regardless if there's a load in the back or how it's secured. Having 800l of water bolted in will still add force to the cab in a crash even if it stays in place.

Driving anything is safe until you crash, could it have been safer, maybe but so could not getting out of bed on a morning.

That said if you are employing you really should have all the boxes ticked in terms of health and safety and doing things by the book in case things go wrong. He should have had a crash tested system if employing, not necessarily because its safer but to cover his own back.

[Bungle]

Next time you see a scaffolding lorry have a look at how the poles are stored.

[colin bird]

this is just my opinion some will agree others will disagree
im a one man band been cleaning for 16 years with a 500l tank bolted to the chassis,im always concerned that i have half a ton on water behind me and drive accordingly
personally for me why would anyone expect  webbing ratchet straps to hold half a tonne of water in place under hard braking ? especailly as the tank is sitting on the floor and with the weight of water is always looking to move forward under braking
i also would not put an employee in a van with a tank being help down by ratchet straps as i feel its an accident waiting to happen.
also the employee probably had no idea what the outcome could possibly be if he had to slam the anchors on.
a tragic waste of life !!! all he was trying to do was earn a few quid ! so sad

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

Obviously, by the sounds of it, the tank was unsuitable for the job and wasn't secured as good as it should have been. Then there's the manner of the driving.
There's nothing wrong with straps at all if they're implemented properly. What do you think secures every Human body in a vehicle? They're often preferable to chains, ever heard the term 'weakest link'? Anything is only as strong as it's weakest part. Crash tested systems are only rated to 30mph so most of the time you would be exceeding it's safe parameters. Common sense and good practice needs to be implemented in all scenarios when carrying a load.

[CleanClear]

There's nothing wrong with straps at all if they're implemented properly.

I agree, there is nothing wrong with a strapped Wyedale tank for instance. They're a solid tank thats not gonna deform.

One of the things you notice on the old Ionics crash test videos is that it doesn't really matter how an IBC is strapped or held, they are flimsy and just collapse when subject to full on frontal movement .They are designed to be stacked on a flat bed truck against a bulkhead and secured.

I like Wyedale tanks.

[Splash and dash]

Obviously, by the sounds of it, the tank was unsuitable for the job and wasn't secured as good as it should have been. Then there's the manner of the driving.
There's nothing wrong with straps at all if they're implemented properly. What do you think secures every Human body in a vehicle? They're often preferable to chains, ever heard the term 'weakest link'? Anything is only as strong as it's weakest part. Crash tested systems are only rated to 30mph so most of the time you would be exceeding it's safe parameters. Common sense and good practice needs to be implemented in all scenarios when carrying a load.

If you read the crash investigation report and coroners report you will find that they state the straps  are not suitable for securing a water tank inside a van .