[Ian_Giles]

A friend of mine who has only recently made the switch to WFP (He has a knackered knee) and has decided to buy and use isopropanol to keep his system frost free and to keep working when the temperature really starts to drop.
I tried it once when I first started and wasn't impressed, so I have a heater in the back of the van I use to keep everything from freezing up, which is effective in protecting my system but not so good at stopping the water freezing on windows, the pole, the jets and the bristles though!
Can isopropanol (isopropyl) really make a cost effective difference that can keep you working when the temperature drops well below freezing?
Apparently a litre per 300l of pure water will give you protection to well below freezing... but I have my doubts!

[dd]

Personally if it is cold enough for water to freeze on glass I do not work.
Only exception to this is if it freezes on an unheated room or (most usually) unheated conservatory

[Spruce]

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ispropanol-water-d_988.html

According to this chart, protection from 0 to -4 degrees needs a 10% dilution rate of Iso to water. So you would need 60 litres per 600 litres of water.

60 litres compared to 1 litre is a lot of litres cost wise for between a day and 2 days work. Using Iso in this ratio doesn't seem practical, imho.

In the past 20 years of window cleaning, we have always used an electric heater with a frostat to keep the van from freezing. The van never froze when we had that bad winter in 2012/3 which hit the East Coast badly.

[JandS]

Sounds an expensive way to go.....for the odd days we get that are that cold round here I think I would rather sit it out for the day.....might be useful just to flush through the pipework in van and let it sit in the pipes and reels etc overnight though.......had the odd morning where I've spent an hour flusing hot water through the system by disconnecting pipework....then hold pipe from tank up in air on a ladder and poured hot water down it and syringed hot water through pump to clear everything right up to the hose reel connection.....I keep pole and reel in house on freezing nights.

[dazmond]

Im so glad I invested in a hot water system  7 years ago now.

Not just for freezing weather either. It's just much nicer to work with all year round but especially from oct-march time when it's a lot cooler.

[zesty]

I don’t bother with heaters, if it’s freezing I’m staying at home.
 
Saying that, when I upgrade my van in a couple of years, I will get a hot water system. More for comfort and cleaning power than anything else. It’s so rare I lose a day to low temps.

[colin bird]

Im so glad I invested in a hot water system  7 years ago now.

Not just for freezing weather either. It's just much nicer to work with all year round but especially from oct-march time when it's a lot cooler.

hi daz i get where your coming form and cant disagree with what your saying,but to be honest not am i only to mean to buy a hotwater system i also  i dont want to work if its that cold ,i can work at minus 1.5 with cold not the best but works for me

[Splash and dash]

No way will one ltr prevent 300 ltr from freezing,most cars have 2 ltr of antifreeze in the cooling system and that holds around 12 ltr .

[dazmond]

Im so glad I invested in a hot water system  7 years ago now.

Not just for freezing weather either. It's just much nicer to work with all year round but especially from oct-march time when it's a lot cooler.

hi daz i get where your coming form and cant disagree with what your saying,but to be honest not am i only to mean to buy a hotwater system i also  i dont want to work if its that cold ,i can work at minus 1.5 with cold not the best but works for me

I always hated cleaning in winter with cold water. The hose is like wire and hands freezing. Also water flow was  lower due to stiff hoses.

Also jets used to freeze up on me sometimes on really cold days which is just another annoying thing to go with ice on skylights and sills(which are easily meltable with a hot system)

Each to their own but cold water cleaning is not for me!

[Ian_Giles]

No way will one ltr prevent 300 ltr from freezing,most cars have 2 ltr of antifreeze in the cooling system and that holds around 12 ltr .

Quite right! My mate has a habit of not thinking things through.
I realised that it was a waste of time 20 years ago but I want to hear what experience you guys have had or not had with it!
I had a DIY hot water system some years ago using an external  campsite shower heater...worked well do until a cold snap I hadn't prepared for caught me out.
I have a small gas heater in the back of the van that I put on really low, used it for several years, protects my stuff in the back of the can although when it gets down to minus 3 and below you can't really work.
Ever had the pole well extended and carried as best you could for a while?
Then the water freezes on the pole and you can't close the pole because iced up!...live and learn lol

[windowswashed]

No way will one ltr prevent 300 ltr from freezing,most cars have 2 ltr of antifreeze in the cooling system and that holds around 12 ltr .

Quite right! My mate has a habit of not thinking things through.
I realised that it was a waste of time 20 years ago but I want to hear what experience you guys have had or not had with it!
I had a DIY hot water system some years ago using an external  campsite shower heater...worked well do until a cold snap I hadn't prepared for caught me out.
I have a small gas heater in the back of the van that I put on really low, used it for several years, protects my stuff in the back of the can although when it gets down to minus 3 and below you can't really work.
Ever had the pole well extended and carried as best you could for a while?
Then the water freezes on the pole and you can't close the pole because iced up!...live and learn lol

I've had a pole fully extended froze to an upstairs window before, had to pour some hot coffee from a flask on it to remove it 
 
Cold water on glass doesn't freeze as quick as hot when it's freezing. Avoid conservatories when it's freezing and extra large panes of glass. Very hot water on cold glass is likely to blow the glass at a later date.

Use to work up to minus 5 degrees but just stay home and enjoy a day off nowadays 

[dazmond]

It's a total myth that hot water freezes faster than cold in relation to cleaning glass in cold conditions....it simply doesn't happen! I've been thawing ice off windows sills and skylights for years with hot water when the temperature is sub zero in the day!😎👍

[Stoots]

There's no point. If it's cold enough to freeze in the hoses etc when working then it's definitely freezing on the glass. You can work around 0, minus 1/2 etc with cold as long as you keep the water flowing and inside the van is above zero between jobs...

I'll guarantee when you add up the cost of running and maintaining/purchasing a diesel hot water system you won't make a profit from it by gaining the odd hour where it might have got you working a handful of times a year.

My new van doesn't have a bulkhead, from using a van like this before I know its great for winter as you can keep the entire system warm all day.

[dazmond]

There's no point. If it's cold enough to freeze in the hoses etc when working then it's definitely freezing on the glass. You can work around 0, minus 1/2 etc with cold as long as you keep the water flowing and inside the van is above zero between jobs...

I'll guarantee when you add up the cost of running and maintaining/purchasing a diesel hot water system you won't make a profit from it by gaining the odd hour where it might have got you working a handful of times a year.

My new van doesn't have a bulkhead, from using a van like this before I know its great for winter as you can keep the entire system warm all day.

The cost of a diesel hot water system is worth it to me as I use it every day all year round.

I don't regret it one bit as it makes every working day easier and happier....

I've got a large church and school to clean today and I need all 100m of hose off my reel for both jobs....it would defo freeze in the hose if I was using cold water or my jets would freeze up.

I'll be finished for 2pm then another 3 day weekend....

I love my working life as I've got the right balance these days...😎👍

[zesty]

There's no point. If it's cold enough to freeze in the hoses etc when working then it's definitely freezing on the glass. You can work around 0, minus 1/2 etc with cold as long as you keep the water flowing and inside the van is above zero between jobs...

I'll guarantee when you add up the cost of running and maintaining/purchasing a diesel hot water system you won't make a profit from it by gaining the odd hour where it might have got you working a handful of times a year.

My new van doesn't have a bulkhead, from using a van like this before I know its great for winter as you can keep the entire system warm all day.

The cost of a diesel hot water system is worth it to me as I use it every day all year round.

I don't regret it one bit as it makes every working day easier and happier....

I've got a large church and school to clean today and I need all 100m of hose off my reel for both jobs....it would defo freeze in the hose if I was using cold water or my jets would freeze up.

I'll be finished for 2pm then another 3 day weekend....

I love my working life as I've got the right balance these days...😎👍

Do you actually think it cleans better daz, because hot water is great on grease and fats etc, but general dust and grime can’t see the major benefit. I’ve never struggled to clean with cold water, the brush does the work in a couple of strokes.

[dazmond]

There's no point. If it's cold enough to freeze in the hoses etc when working then it's definitely freezing on the glass. You can work around 0, minus 1/2 etc with cold as long as you keep the water flowing and inside the van is above zero between jobs...

I'll guarantee when you add up the cost of running and maintaining/purchasing a diesel hot water system you won't make a profit from it by gaining the odd hour where it might have got you working a handful of times a year.

My new van doesn't have a bulkhead, from using a van like this before I know its great for winter as you can keep the entire system warm all day.

I managed to get finished for 1pm. Started at 9am at -2c no problem. Thawed quite a few skylights out and ice on sills. 🔥 ❄️

Washed car and van,checked oil,topped up screenwash,etc,hoovered both vehicles out,filled tank up with pure water,put batteries on charge,downloaded worksheets to my phone,printed slips,emailed invoices,etc.

Sat down with a nice cup of tea and a sandwich now and it's not even 3pm yet!😎👍

[dazmond]

There's no point. If it's cold enough to freeze in the hoses etc when working then it's definitely freezing on the glass. You can work around 0, minus 1/2 etc with cold as long as you keep the water flowing and inside the van is above zero between jobs...

I'll guarantee when you add up the cost of running and maintaining/purchasing a diesel hot water system you won't make a profit from it by gaining the odd hour where it might have got you working a handful of times a year.

My new van doesn't have a bulkhead, from using a van like this before I know its great for winter as you can keep the entire system warm all day.

The cost of a diesel hot water system is worth it to me as I use it every day all year round.

I don't regret it one bit as it makes every working day easier and happier....

I've got a large church and school to clean today and I need all 100m of hose off my reel for both jobs....it would defo freeze in the hose if I was using cold water or my jets would freeze up.

I'll be finished for 2pm then another 3 day weekend....

I love my working life as I've got the right balance these days...😎👍

Do you actually think it cleans better daz, because hot water is great on grease and fats etc, but general dust and grime can’t see the major benefit. I’ve never struggled to clean with cold water, the brush does the work in a couple of strokes.

Of course it cleans easier and quicker esp in the summer months on dirty first cleans, less frequent cleans and plastics.

It's more than that though. In winter it's more about easier hose management,good flow,warm hands and no freezing issues...

I have a f/s/g job interspersed with my regular maintenance window cleaning on Monday. Hot water will be enough(no chemicals). Which will speed the job up because I won't have to rinse the suds away!

[zesty]

I find cold water cleans FSGs easy anyway, I think my only lure to hot water is the ease of use and warm hands. I doubt it’s going to make my regular window cleaning any faster/easier. We’ll wait to see.

[deeege]

I find cold water cleans FSGs easy anyway, I think my only lure to hot water is the ease of use and warm hands. I doubt it’s going to make my regular window cleaning any faster/easier. We’ll wait to see.

When Daz’s system broke and he went back to using cold he told us all that having warm hands was the only benefit to using hot water. Basically a £5k pair of gloves. Never had an issue here using cold to as low a -2°.

[dazmond]

I find cold water cleans FSGs easy anyway, I think my only lure to hot water is the ease of use and warm hands. I doubt it’s going to make my regular window cleaning any faster/easier. We’ll wait to see.

When Daz’s system broke and he went back to using cold he told us all that having warm hands was the only benefit to using hot water. Basically a £5k pair of gloves. Never had an issue here using cold to as low a -2°.

Rather you than me Danny....its miserable using cold water in the winter months.🤣👍