[AuRavelling79]

So how is your tank carried Winpro?

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

So how is your tank carried Winpro?

That's irrelevant. You'll be asking the name of my insurance provider next.😄

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

In over 20 years I've never been asked, even once if I carry a water tank!

It’s your responsibility to declare it not for them to ask , have a look in the small print of your policy .

Can you provide evidence of this?

In over 20 years,I've never been asked, never appeared in the list of assumptions nor had it presented to me to declare that I carry a water tank. It's never appeared in any small print either. All questions are answered fully and correctly including my occupation as a self employed window cleaner. However, my van isn't 'modified' . The factory spec' remains intact and my tank is removable.
Just to add to the annoyance, my policy is less than £200 per year fully comp!
What do you suggest I do, phone them up and give them a list of reasons why I think they should be charging me Four times what they currently are?🤔

All insurance companies state it’s your responsibility to declare anything that the vehicle didn’t leave the factory with , might be stupid but that’s the legal requirement, not all things will be charged extra on a premium but they want to know  it has xyz .

So you can't provide any evidence at all?
I'd like you to provide your evidence that carrying a removable load in a unmodified commercial vehicle has to be declared to the insurance company.

As I said earlier I did post the email from the insurance company on here and it had to be deleted  under GDPR regulations, I still have it somewhere

If their statement was factually correct. On what basis did they claim it had to be removed under GDPR?

[CleanClear]

In over 20 years I've never been asked, even once if I carry a water tank!

I had an incident where there was an argument between a driver and insurance company over the declaration of the tank.

The van was written off and the insurance company only paid partially. 95.5% if I remember right. They could have paid nothing and there isn't much I could have done.

Declare your tanks lads.

They didn't pay 95.5% on a whim.

Sure, the van was less than a year old and had only done 7500 miles. 4.5% was still a wedge.

Reading this it appears you are saying they paid out so much as your van was less than a year old , is that right? I'll see your other replies just the now.......

[AuRavelling79]

So how is your tank carried Winpro?

That's irrelevant. You'll be asking the name of my insurance provider next.😄

Why so coy?  If you were sure of your position why wouldn't you say?

[CleanClear]

In over 20 years I've never been asked, even once if I carry a water tank!

I had an incident where there was an argument between a driver and insurance company over the declaration of the tank.

The van was written off and the insurance company only paid partially. 95.5% if I remember right. They could have paid nothing and there isn't much I could have done.

Declare your tanks lads.

They didn't pay 95.5% on a whim.

The 4.5% was the shortfall in premium they calculated from not declaring the tank ...

If thats true, i'm completley amazed. Because insurance cos will usually look to void any policy if its incorrect, or incorrectly been taken out. So to follow what you say .... they paid out on a seemingly invalid policy (you didn't declare a tank) and deducted a tiny percentasge of the claim to you for this minor infraction ? Really ?

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

So how is your tank carried Winpro?

That's irrelevant. You'll be asking the name of my insurance provider next.😄

Why so coy?

Because the point being argued is about insurance cover, not safety. I wouldn't argue that a crash tested system is no safer than mine as the chances are it is indeed most probably safer. However, I have no way of actually proving it either way other than logic and common sense.
I do though, know that I am fully insured to drive my van on UK roads for the purpose in which it is used. If, someone else tells me different then all I ask is that they provide evidence and not just hearsay. This argument comes round regularly on here and to date, no one has provided a scrap of factual evidence to back up the claim that I'm not insured or that I need to declare the transporting of a water tank, utilising factory lashing points in an unmodified van. Not even once!

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

In over 20 years I've never been asked, even once if I carry a water tank!

I had an incident where there was an argument between a driver and insurance company over the declaration of the tank.

The van was written off and the insurance company only paid partially. 95.5% if I remember right. They could have paid nothing and there isn't much I could have done.

Declare your tanks lads.

They didn't pay 95.5% on a whim.

The 4.5% was the shortfall in premium they calculated from not declaring the tank ...

If thats true, i'm completley amazed. Because insurance cos will usually look to void any policy if its incorrect, or incorrectly been taken out. So to follow what you say .... they paid out on a seemingly invalid policy (you didn't declare a tank) and deducted a tiny percentasge of the claim to you for this minor infraction ? Really ?

Indeed!

[Splash and dash]

In over 20 years I've never been asked, even once if I carry a water tank!

It’s your responsibility to declare it not for them to ask , have a look in the small print of your policy .

Can you provide evidence of this?

In over 20 years,I've never been asked, never appeared in the list of assumptions nor had it presented to me to declare that I carry a water tank. It's never appeared in any small print either. All questions are answered fully and correctly including my occupation as a self employed window cleaner. However, my van isn't 'modified' . The factory spec' remains intact and my tank is removable.
Just to add to the annoyance, my policy is less than £200 per year fully comp!
What do you suggest I do, phone them up and give them a list of reasons why I think they should be charging me Four times what they currently are?🤔

All insurance companies state it’s your responsibility to declare anything that the vehicle didn’t leave the factory with , might be stupid but that’s the legal requirement, not all things will be charged extra on a premium but they want to know  it has xyz .

So you can't provide any evidence at all?
I'd like you to provide your evidence that carrying a removable load in a unmodified commercial vehicle has to be declared to the insurance company.

As I said earlier I did post the email from the insurance company on here and it had to be deleted  under GDPR regulations, I still have it somewhere

If their statement was factually correct. On what basis did they claim it had to be removed under GDPR?

The email was sent to me with their  and my personal details on it and I put that on a public forum thus sharing a private email in public , at the end of the email it had all this blurb stating it should not be shared when I read all the small print they were right

[Tam1872]

This is what the finacial ombasmun says

Did the insurer ask the applicant a clear cut question about the matter which is now under dispute?
Did the applicant’s answer to that clear question influence the insurer’s decision to enter into a contract, or to do so under terms and conditions that would have otherwise not been accepted?
Only if the answers to both questions are ‘yes’ will there be an investigation into whether the applicant’s misrepresentation was an innocent mistake, or a dishonest attempt to mislead. Negligence will also be considered.

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

This is what the finacial ombasmun says

Did the insurer ask the applicant a clear cut question about the matter which is now under dispute?
Did the applicant’s answer to that clear question influence the insurer’s decision to enter into a contract, or to do so under terms and conditions that would have otherwise not been accepted?
Only if the answers to both questions are ‘yes’ will there be an investigation into whether the applicant’s misrepresentation was an innocent mistake, or a dishonest attempt to mislead. Negligence will also be considered.

Yep, common sense prevails!

[CleanClear]

Do you have to declare every load you take?

Regardless of how the  tank is held in the van it’s not a load , a load is put in the van and then delivered to xxx the tank is usually permanently in the van

Yeah mate, the problem is usually the water (load), which is what they're all on about.

[Tam1872]

Google what is classed as a modification on a van. Carrying a tank with water in it doesn't show on anything that comes up. 

It's basicly anything you add to the van that hasn't came as factory fitted. So I could see how they could claim bolting the tank so it's permanently attached to the van would be a modification.

If it's not permanently bolted then you would win your case against them if they failed to pay out, as you haven't modified it in anyway.  Its a van, which you have already declared you will be using it to carriage own goods.

[CleanClear]

Do you have to declare every load you take?

Regardless of how the  tank is held in the van it’s not a load , a load is put in the van and then delivered to xxx the tank is usually permanently in the van

And following logic would mean you do not declare until you fill tank up  with water ? Or you declare a vehicle modification that has a tank "fitted to it" ?  Which one you going with ?

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

Google what is classed as a modification on a van. Carrying a tank with water in it doesn't show on anything that comes up. 

It's basicly anything you add to the van that hasn't came as factory fitted. So I could see how they could claim bolting the tank so it's permanently attached to the van would be a modification.

If it's not permanently bolted then you would win your case against them if they failed to pay out, as you haven't modified it in anyway.  Its a van, which you have already declared you will be using it to carriage own goods.

This is exactly the case and no one on here has ever proven otherwise.

[Tam1872]

What is carriage of own goods van insurance?
Carriage of own goods van insurance is a type of business van insurance that covers you for driving your van for business use while carrying the items you need for work.

It's different from other types of insurance such as goods for hire or reward, haulage, and courier cover as it only applies to items you actually own.

This specificity is crucial as it pertains solely to the policyholder's possessions, ensuring that your personal or work-related belongings are covered during transit.

[CleanClear]

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=224860.msg2164480#msg2164480

Good old Pete Thompson sought to address this and put it to bed with his wisdom in the locked thread now amalgamated to this one.....(Pete likes Ionics).

Here's Ionics crash test videos and info (take a look at them).......
https://www.ionicsystems.com/safety/crash-testing-development/


Each and every video shows a tank that ionics do not provide. They do not provide a flimsy plastic 1000 litre carton that sits in an IBC frame on a pallet. They provide a substantial heavy duty plastic tank more akin to a Wyredale tank (that doesn't flex) .

And unless Ionics have some sort of patent on steel bars, their frame doesn't move to much either . As you'd expect from a steel tank frame.

So whats the "crash tested " bit ?

[AuRavelling79]

So how is your tank carried Winpro?

That's irrelevant. You'll be asking the name of my insurance provider next.😄

Why so coy?

Because the point being argued is about insurance cover, not safety. I wouldn't argue that a crash tested system is no safer than mine as the chances are it is indeed most probably safer. However, I have no way of actually proving it either way other than logic and common sense.
I do though, know that I am fully insured to drive my van on UK roads for the purpose in which it is used. If, someone else tells me different then all I ask is that they provide evidence and not just hearsay. This argument comes round regularly on here and to date, no one has provided a scrap of factual evidence to back up the claim that I'm not insured or that I need to declare the transporting of a water tank, utilising factory lashing points in an unmodified van. Not even once!

Got you. I surmise your tank is secured in the same way as it would be if it were carrying a load of orange juice in an IBC on a pallet which you would then transfer to a customer.

As in it is strapped to the manufacturers load points.

I don't deign to dispute whether what you do is legal.

And you acknowledge this might not be the safest way to carry your water.

Is your van modified to have pumps reels and battery and pole carriers fitted and if so are their fixing points modifications or do they sit on (eg) a wooden frame or ply lining?

[CleanClear]

Is your van modified to have pumps reels and battery and pole carriers fitted and if so are their fixing points modifications or do they sit on (eg) a wooden frame or ply lining?

Is the van fitted with racking might be the question ? Dunno , just a guess based on others...........................
I do know i can lift my battery , pump, controller and reel out in one lift................. ok , two i aint that strong. I'll come back for the reel...

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

So how is your tank carried Winpro?

That's irrelevant. You'll be asking the name of my insurance provider next.😄

Why so coy?

Because the point being argued is about insurance cover, not safety. I wouldn't argue that a crash tested system is no safer than mine as the chances are it is indeed most probably safer. However, I have no way of actually proving it either way other than logic and common sense.
I do though, know that I am fully insured to drive my van on UK roads for the purpose in which it is used. If, someone else tells me different then all I ask is that they provide evidence and not just hearsay. This argument comes round regularly on here and to date, no one has provided a scrap of factual evidence to back up the claim that I'm not insured or that I need to declare the transporting of a water tank, utilising factory lashing points in an unmodified van. Not even once!

Got you. I surmise your tank is secured in the same way as it would be if it were carrying a load of orange juice in an IBC on a pallet which you would then transfer to a customer.

As in it is strapped to the manufacturers load points.

I don't deign to dispute whether what you do is legal.

And you acknowledge this might not be the safest way to carry your water.

Is your van modified to have pumps reels and battery and pole carriers fitted and if so are their fixing points modifications or do they sit on (eg) a wooden frame or ply lining?

My pump and controller are on a metal plate which is fitted to the ply which covers the wheel arch. Can be removed in minutes as it's all plumbed with pipe and push fit. Pump is powered direct from van battery. DI vessels are up against the tank and are held in place by the pipe and fittings connected to them.  The tank is secured to the factory lashing points by straps, up against the bulkhead and blocked against the lower bulkhead
brace pillar, also wedged in place laterally with wooden blocks against
the side door pillars. The tank lid is at the front to allow it to blow off under pressure. Apart from the tank, there is nothing else which is fixed, or secured in place. Even my hose reel is free standing as I lift it out.
In 20 years and a few close shaves, the tank hasn't moved a millimetre! I fully accept responsibility for how my van is set up and have full confidence in it's safety.
Oh, and my tank is a 500ltr 'cube' shaped, baffled wydale.