[simon w]

Hi Simon W
Please can i have your permission to copy the pictures you have put on here to use for a Tool box talk on working near electicity

Bryan Dolby

Sorry Brian I'm going to have to say no I'm afraid. Hope you understand.

[Bryan Dolby]

Hi Simon W

OK thanks

Bryan

[Spruce]

Hi Simon W

OK thanks

Bryan

Here are a couple taken from Google Earth where we work.

The first is power lines at the house. We have to be careful cleaning the upper windows on each side of that power line.  If you look carefully, we can see power lines to the side of the house on the right. Those power lines pass in front of that side window that's open fractionally. That's a no no window for wfp (or any other method) to clean. Why they put power cables in front of that window is anyone's guess. It's unbelievable.

The second of the street shows the power lines down the street to the right. Power cables then divide for house supplies.
The pole to the very right with steps at the top are telephone power lines, They are not dangerous, but obviously we don't want to damage them.

[simon w]

For those GFS cleaning on properties where an over head power cable goes into a house via hole in fascia and into loft, this could be potential danger too where brush and carbon pole touches fascia close to power cable. Same applies with Carbon or Ali gutter poles

[Spruce]

For those GFS cleaning on properties where an over head power cable goes into a house via hole in fascia and into loft, this could be potential danger too where brush and carbon pole touches fascia close to power cable. Same applies with Carbon or Ali gutter poles

Exactly. And don't spray water anywhere near those connectors or cables.

[Bryan Dolby]

Hi Spruce
Please can i have your permission to use these pictures for a tool box talk

Regards

Bryan Dolby

[CleanClear]

Looks like there is a bit of an outcome to this :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c749gj1ezdko?

My first thoughts are.........



That this is nonsense. It burdens everyone else whilst taking the onus off the operator to do an actual RA (Risk Assesment)?

[Scottish Cleaning Service]

I wouldn't go near live cables because electricity can jump across to anything that goes to earth. This means if you are close with a carbon pole it can arc on to your pole even if you don't touch the cable. It can also travel down smoke and if you are at the bottom putting a fire out then you can get zapped.

[CleanClear]

I wouldn't go near live cables because electricity can jump across to anything that goes to earth. This means if you are close with a carbon pole it can arc on to your pole even if you don't touch the cable. It can also travel down smoke and if you are at the bottom putting a fire out then you can get zapped.

Michael (Hi, i'm a Michael too! ) , thats why i have a strict policy of put out no fires and run away if you see smoke, call 999 and let them deal with it.

[Pete Thompson]

Looks like there is a bit of an outcome to this :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c749gj1ezdko?

My first thoughts are.........



That this is nonsense. It burdens everyone else whilst taking the onus off the operator to do an actual RA (Risk Assesment)?

“Relevant window cleaning authorities”

    

No such thing exists.

[Slacky]

All they could possibly mean is the FWC.

Who have no clout.

[tonyoliver]

A little of post but as Freemasons we collect for the air ambulance in London  we brought two new ones this year over 2 million pounds

Getting the poor guy to a specialist hospital in 10 mins is worth every pound we donated

Lucky that in most towns cables are underground  I rarely see over head cables but if you work out of towns be careful so much can go wrong quickly
You never know what’s round the corner
Poor man will never be the same again

[Spruce]

Looks like there is a bit of an outcome to this :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c749gj1ezdko?

My first thoughts are.........



That this is nonsense. It burdens everyone else whilst taking the onus off the operator to do an actual RA (Risk Assesment)?

When we did an NVQ on window cleaning, the instructor told us to write a Risk Assessment for each job we do.

I thought this was going a bit overboard, but if I was the instructor, I would probably say the same.

I know that Gardiner poles have an insulated base section. Would I put my full faith that it will fully protect me from electric shock? No way.

I'm sure that most of us will do a mental assessment of the customer's property when we arrive before we start cleaning. I'm sure that we can all remember a job we rocked up to and then decided that it was best to leave it for another time.

My mental risk assessment would have probably told me that the job is too risky to do, even if I was desperate for the work. I base that on another report of the 'recent' death of a window cleaner who touched power lines with his aluminium pole.

We clean both properties of the first photo I posted on this thread. Our risk assessment says when we have finished cleaning the top windows of the first house, we collapse the pole before moving onto the next property and then extending the pole to clean those top windows. Those power lines to the houses don't carry 33,000 volts; possibly single 230v supply, but I still don't trust my Gardiner pole. I use it carefully as though it had no insulation at all.

[CleanClear]

Looks like there is a bit of an outcome to this :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c749gj1ezdko?

My first thoughts are.........



That this is nonsense. It burdens everyone else whilst taking the onus off the operator to do an actual RA (Risk Assesment)?

When we did an NVQ on window cleaning, the instructor told us to write a Risk Assessment for each job we do.

I thought this was going a bit overboard, but if I was the instructor, I would probably say the same.

I know that Gardiner poles have an insulated base section. Would I put my full faith that it will fully protect me from electric shock? No way.

I'm sure that most of us will do a mental assessment of the customer's property when we arrive before we start cleaning. I'm sure that we can all remember a job we rocked up to and then decided that it was best to leave it for another time.

My mental risk assessment would have probably told me that the job is too risky to do, even if I was desperate for the work. I base that on another report of the 'recent' death of a window cleaner who touched power lines with his aluminium pole.

We clean both properties of the first photo I posted on this thread. Our risk assessment says when we have finished cleaning the top windows of the first house, we collapse the pole before moving onto the next property and then extending the pole to clean those top windows. Those power lines to the houses don't carry 33,000 volts; possibly single 230v supply, but I still don't trust my Gardiner pole. I use it carefully as though it had no insulation at all.

If that was the one provided by Impact 43 then i done same one. Written RA for large jobs (commercial) and ongoing RA (no need for it to be written) as you go about your daily window cleaning schedule from house to house.

[matty72]

Jesus I really feel for that guy, I have many of times cleaned close to electric lines going into houses, I remember one time a mate was helping me and he said he didn't want to clean round the electric cable, I said no probs took the pole and done the  facia,  I seem to remember there was a black rubber covering over the cable which i thought made it half safe, how wrong was I, I will be taking alot more care from now on.

[jay moley]

Hi Simon W

OK thanks

Bryan

Here are a couple taken from Google Earth where we work.

The first is power lines at the house. We have to be careful cleaning the upper windows on each side of that power line.  If you look carefully, we can see power lines to the side of the house on the right. Those power lines pass in front of that side window that's open fractionally. That's a no no window for wfp (or any other method) to clean. Why they put power cables in front of that window is anyone's guess. It's unbelievable.

The second of the street shows the power lines down the street to the right. Power cables then divide for house supplies.
The pole to the very right with steps at the top are telephone power lines, They are not dangerous, but obviously we don't want to damage them.

Are telephone lines always thinner?

[Pete Thompson]

All they could possibly mean is the FWC.

Who have no clout.

Oh god please no.

Remember when they went on national TV saying waterfed poles didn’t work?!

I’m looking at you Bryan Dolby.

Whatever else we need, it’s not this bunch of utter clowns getting involved.

[Spruce]

Looks like there is a bit of an outcome to this :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c749gj1ezdko?

My first thoughts are.........



That this is nonsense. It burdens everyone else whilst taking the onus off the operator to do an actual RA (Risk Assesment)?

When we did an NVQ on window cleaning, the instructor told us to write a Risk Assessment for each job we do.

I thought this was going a bit overboard, but if I was the instructor, I would probably say the same.

I know that Gardiner poles have an insulated base section. Would I put my full faith that it will fully protect me from electric shock? No way.

I'm sure that most of us will do a mental assessment of the customer's property when we arrive before we start cleaning. I'm sure that we can all remember a job we rocked up to and then decided that it was best to leave it for another time.

My mental risk assessment would have probably told me that the job is too risky to do, even if I was desperate for the work. I base that on another report of the 'recent' death of a window cleaner who touched power lines with his aluminium pole.

We clean both properties of the first photo I posted on this thread. Our risk assessment says when we have finished cleaning the top windows of the first house, we collapse the pole before moving onto the next property and then extending the pole to clean those top windows. Those power lines to the houses don't carry 33,000 volts; possibly single 230v supply, but I still don't trust my Gardiner pole. I use it carefully as though it had no insulation at all.

If that was the one provided by Impact 43 then i done same one. Written RA for large jobs (commercial) and ongoing RA (no need for it to be written) as you go about your daily window cleaning schedule from house to house.

Yes it was Impact 43.

Jason and his father were on BBC2 news this morning (20/10/2024) compaigning for a new standard of poles being sold in the UK. He was using a Gardiner SLX pole. What he wants is the inner sections to be insulated as well. This would basically be a CLX hybrid pole already available.

He and his Dad want to travel the world compaigning for better pole manufacturing standards. He can't clean windows any longer so is he looking for a new career.

I'm sorry for what happened to him and glad he is still alive. But how much of the accident or incident is down to his negligence?

[kiral1404]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.hse.gov.uk/treework/safety-topics/power-lines.htm&ved=2ahUKEwj2qMX8kJ6JAxVgTEEAHSh3NYIQFnoECEEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1hCczRzRGEBI5c_8ExylZ2

This link is from the HSE. Explains quite a lot, everyone should have a read and show employees.

Regarding the accident at 33,000v(33kV) it recommends a safe distance of 3m. Having an insulated base pole would not have saved him.

In the first photo, it is a service cable 230v. It is relatively newish and insulated.  Recommended safe distance according to HSE 1m,
I'd be happy cleaning that.
The second photo of the 3 wires going to the house is again 230v, this time bare wires. Personally wouldn't clean these but owner could ask for the electric company to shroud these.
Surprised things like this are still about.
I started an apprenticeship in 1990 at Eastern Electricity and they were changing service cables then to insulated cables.

The third photo is 3 phase, neutral and either telecom or streetlighting. 230v/415v.

Also, when we used to work on overhead lines, if there was a lightning strike we had to wait 30  mins after the last one before we restarted work.

Hope that helps people out a bit.

[Spruce]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.hse.gov.uk/treework/safety-topics/power-lines.htm&ved=2ahUKEwj2qMX8kJ6JAxVgTEEAHSh3NYIQFnoECEEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1hCczRzRGEBI5c_8ExylZ2

This link is from the HSE. Explains quite a lot, everyone should have a read and show employees.

Regarding the accident at 33,000v(33kV) it recommends a safe distance of 3m. Having an insulated base pole would not have saved him.

In the first photo, it is a service cable 230v. It is relatively newish and insulated.  Recommended safe distance according to HSE 1m,
I'd be happy cleaning that.
The second photo of the 3 wires going to the house is again 230v, this time bare wires. Personally wouldn't clean these but owner could ask for the electric company to shroud these.
Surprised things like this are still about.
I started an apprenticeship in 1990 at Eastern Electricity and they were changing service cables then to insulated cables.

The third photo is 3 phase, neutral and either telecom or streetlighting. 230v/415v.

Also, when we used to work on overhead lines, if there was a lightning strike we had to wait 30  mins after the last one before we restarted work.

Hope that helps people out a bit.

Thank you for this. Please confirm which photos you are referring to.