[Spruce]

This is another consideration if deciding to use Lithium batteries. I've seen this video before, but couldn't find it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgoIocPgOug

I would like to resurrect this thread as it is still a relevant topic.

Firstly, has anyone in the last year opted for a lithium battery replacement, and if so, experiences with charging setup would be appreciated please.

Secondly, I have a great respect for Sterling, but this video I linked to they made has been debunked by another YouTuber. He identified that the alternator they'smoked' was an alternator from a small citroen car with a low amp output. So you can't always believe what you see .

There has been a lot of debate over the internet on charging profiles for lithium. Does anyone use a b2b charger and what charging profile works for them? Some lithium batteries are sold with a charger. Is this an option?

The default charging profile Sterling use had been described as a little harsh by another expert and needs to be 'toned down.'

Does anyone know when and how often they need to be recharged? With lead acid we need to recharge them asap after use. Someone advised that they need their charge depleted before recharging.

[Simon Trapani]

Christ Spruce. You’re the brightest person on here. If you you don't know, how the hell d’you expect us lot to?🤣

[Spruce]

Christ Spruce. You’re the brightest person on here. If you you don't know, how the hell d’you expect us lot to?🤣

I wish that were true, but I'm afraid it isn't.😟

I'm thinking about going down this lithium route: the last battery I buy before I die scenario. 😂

[zesty]

How do you get round charging it in the winter?

Unless you want to lug it indoors each time?

As I understand it, you can’t charge them in 0 degrees or less.

As I use an extension reel into the van each night to charge my leisure battery, lithium wouldn’t be suitable in winter. It’s way too much faff bringing it indoors, taking off the terminals etc…

[4Seasons]

I have this one..
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CPLWDZY3/ref=twister_B0B86SMR6Z?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

It comes with it's own charger.
Lasts all day and takes about 20-25min to recharge at the end of the day.
Changing to this from a Leisure Battery has been a revelation.

[Spruce]

How do you get round charging it in the winter?

Unless you want to lug it indoors each time?

As I understand it, you can’t charge them in 0 degrees or less.

As I use an extension reel into the van each night to charge my leisure battery, lithium wouldn’t be suitable in winter. It’s way too much faff bringing it indoors, taking off the terminals etc…

Charging in winter time in below freezing conditions is an issue.

You can buy a lithium battery that has additional built in heating pads at a cost, but the charging input has to be above 10 amps continuous to activate these heating pads on some batteries. So it requires an outside power source anyway.

My van is kept a few degrees above freezing with an electric heater. My diesel heater also has frost protection and kicks on when the internals reach 3 degrees.
My battery is raised up on side of my tank and to the side of my diesel heater.

Warmth from the diesel heater will also lessen the chance of my battery freezing.

Freezing is a good point though.

I know we charge our lithium powered phones overnight (which we shouldn't do apparently), but I personally wouldn't want to charge a 100 amp lithium battery indoors over night anyway.

[Spruce]

I have this one..
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CPLWDZY3/ref=twister_B0B86SMR6Z?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

It comes with it's own charger.
Lasts all day and takes about 20-25min to recharge at the end of the day.
Changing to this from a Leisure Battery has been a revelation.

Thank you. When I did a search on Amazon, this make never came up.

[Spruce]

I have this one..
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0CPLWDZY3/ref=twister_B0B86SMR6Z?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

It comes with it's own charger.
Lasts all day and takes about 20-25min to recharge at the end of the day.
Changing to this from a Leisure Battery has been a revelation.

Another question please. The product description says it comes with a charger and BMS. I'm confused about the BMS. That's part of the battery internals. Does it come with a build in BMS display so we can see what's what with the battery's state of charge?

 Thanks

[matthewprice]

 I got  a 75 amp lithium battery . Came with a basic charger . Up graded to ctek lithium charger . To be on the safe side . Stops charging when full . . Get a full week out of  the battery . Then mains charge . Had a180 amp Agm that weighs a ton . Lithium battery can lift with two fingers . I have a garage and so far not had any issues with the cold  . If it was to get extreme could put oil heater in back of van   . So far think it  has worked well for me .

[DJW]

I thank you for everyone’s opinion/ experience.I have absolutely no experience of lithium batteries. But I am definitely in need of reducing payload . I have advantage of being able to mains charge in my garage . So far the only real problem is charging in the cold weather .  Looks like I could get 50amp battery. But could discharge it more than a leisure battery I have . Matt

If you want to reduce your payload then how about running off the van battery?

[windowswashed]

A lithium ion battery has roughly 500 cycles to 80 percent and they are the ones that are highly explosive if the BMS is dodgy (battery management system), i.e. a printed circuit board that regulates the battery to prevent overcharging, overheating, etc.

 It's LifePo4 batteries which are safer and have on average 3000-3500 cycles or approximately 10 years to 80 percent use. They won't charge below zero degrees unless they are kept above zero degrees somewhere inside a well ventilated enclosure  and have a built in heating to charge from low settings. Ideally you want one with grade A cells (best you can get) and a good BMS preferably bluetooth to keep an eye on battery charge.

[matthewprice]

This week done 6miles worked 5 days  so far . Many start stops . Didn’t want to run the risk of a flat van battery .

[matthewprice]

Also definitely want a lifePO4 battery . . Advantage of keeping van undercover when cold  my system has never froze.   three  other cleaners have had issues with frozen  vans this year . So unless we get  a real extreme burst of cold ,I don’t foresee an issue . Understand there are many places that are much colder than where I live . So won’t work for all

[Splash & dash]

How do you get round charging it in the winter?

Unless you want to lug it indoors each time?

As I understand it, you can’t charge them in 0 degrees or less.

As I use an extension reel into the van each night to charge my leisure battery, lithium wouldn’t be suitable in winter. It’s way too much faff bringing it indoors, taking off the terminals etc…

I know on boats they are fitted in heated boxes

[Smudger]

Can these only be charged via he mains?

[windowswashed]

Can these only be charged via he mains?

Can be charged by solar or battery to battery smart charger as well.

[Smudger]

Thanks well worth looking into

[Spruce]

My leisure battery is 3 years old and needed replacement.

I've bitten the proverbial bullet and purchased a 105 amph FogstarLifePO4 battery on the recommendation of A900. I also purchased a 20amp lithium charger from them as well. I fitted it into my van this week.
Reprogramming my Sterling b2b charger from 60 amp to 30 amp took me a couple of hours with Ben Sterling's help from Sterling.

Interestingly, these battery 2 battery chargers are rated at input to the charger rather than output. So my BB1260 has an input amperage of 60 amps but around 50 amps output amperage. That's apparently fine for charging a 105 amp lithium battery, but Fogstar recommend charging at 20 to 30 amps, as it is kinder to the battery. The battery arrived at 50% charge, and my new 20amp charger fully charged it at 16 amps dropping to 10 amps.

I see my battery charges at around 25 amps when starting the engine, but quickly drops back to 12 amps with a 95% fully charged battery. This is double the charge that the lead acid batteries I had before would accept with a similar charge capacity. But I will still have to bench charge this battery when I use the diesel heater, as short trips won't be enough to full recharge it.

What I love is that even under load, the battery voltage stays at a constant 13.1v.

Incorporated into the battery are heating elements. If the temperature is below freezing, the charge current is diverted to these heating coils by the BMS. Once the battery has warmed up, charging will start.

Sterling's battery with heating coils is twice the price.

Anyway, it's early days and I have a lot to master and experience with this new technology. 

[lal]

My leisure battery is 3 years old and needed replacement.

I've bitten the proverbial bullet and purchased a 105 amph FogstarLifePO4 battery on the recommendation of A900. I also purchased a 20amp lithium charger from them as well. I fitted it into my van this week.
Reprogramming my Sterling b2b charger from 60 amp to 30 amp took me a couple of hours with Ben Sterling's help from Sterling.

Interestingly, these battery 2 battery chargers are rated at input to the charger rather than output. So my BB1260 has an input amperage of 60 amps but around 50 amps output amperage. That's apparently fine for charging a 105 amp lithium battery, but Fogstar recommend charging at 20 to 30 amps, as it is kinder to the battery. The battery arrived at 50% charge, and my new 20amp charger fully charged it at 16 amps dropping to 10 amps.

I see my battery charges at around 25 amps when starting the engine, but quickly drops back to 12 amps with a 95% fully charged battery. This is double the charge that the lead acid batteries I had before would accept with a similar charge capacity. But I will still have to bench charge this battery when I use the diesel heater, as short trips won't be enough to full recharge it.

What I love is that even under load, the battery voltage stays at a constant 13.1v.

Incorporated into the battery are heating elements. If the temperature is below freezing, the charge current is diverted to these heating coils by the BMS. Once the battery has warmed up, charging will start.

Sterling's battery with heating coils is twice the price.

Anyway, it's early days and I have a lot to master and experience with this new technology.

This is very interesting  Spruce, all the best with it, will you give us an update in the Future sometime,
to see how its going.
Best regards
Lal

[dazmond]

I replaced my system batteries last year.they were around 3 years old.i always just replace like with like.im not sure whether lithium batteries are suitable for our needs as don't they suffer on below freezing nights and not charge up properly?I might be mistaken!

Anyway one day in December my van battery was completely flat in the afternoon,I had to get a customer to
jump start me!it's never happened before or since!my van battery is only 12 months old.