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֍Winp®oClean֍

  • Posts: 1687
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2022, 07:35:11 pm »
A flow controller makes so much sense for so many reasons. The spring V16's are fantastic controllers and at around £100 really are a no brainer. Many negatives to not having one and many positives to having one. Not even worth arguing about!😎👌
Comfortably Numb!

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25382
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2022, 08:27:36 pm »
A flow controller makes so much sense for so many reasons. The spring V16's are fantastic controllers and at around £100 really are a no brainer. Many negatives to not having one and many positives to having one. Not even worth arguing about!😎👌

Educate me why I would be better off with one.
It's a game of three halves!

Splash & dash

  • Posts: 4364
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2022, 08:32:32 pm »
A flow controller makes so much sense for so many reasons. The spring V16's are fantastic controllers and at around £100 really are a no brainer. Many negatives to not having one and many positives to having one. Not even worth arguing about!😎👌

Educate me why I would be better off with one.


One simple one is you aren’t relying on the pumps pressure switch which will burn out , but Ian Shepperd is the expert on this subject

Missing Link

  • Posts: 44724
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2022, 09:41:57 pm »
but Ian Shepperd is the expert on this subject

I take it Ian is a supplier of flow controllers?

Pronouns She/Her/Madam/Ma'am

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25382
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2022, 09:51:50 pm »
A flow controller makes so much sense for so many reasons. The spring V16's are fantastic controllers and at around £100 really are a no brainer. Many negatives to not having one and many positives to having one. Not even worth arguing about!😎👌

Educate me why I would be better off with one.


One simple one is you aren’t relying on the pumps pressure switch which will burn out , but Ian Shepperd is the expert on this subject

And yet after 6 years of the same pumps this has not happened.
It's a game of three halves!

Splash & dash

  • Posts: 4364
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2022, 10:09:41 pm »
A flow controller makes so much sense for so many reasons. The spring V16's are fantastic controllers and at around £100 really are a no brainer. Many negatives to not having one and many positives to having one. Not even worth arguing about!😎👌

Educate me why I would be better off with one.


One simple one is you aren’t relying on the pumps pressure switch which will burn out , but Ian Shepperd is the expert on this subject

And yet after 6 years of the same pumps this has not happened.


Do you turn the pump off between jobs ? If you do this will reduce the work the pressure switch does , you can work without a controller but there are more advantages than disadvantages, water usage will be far higher and if ones have a small tank will run out if running flat out . I think it’s generally agreed as an industry standard that a controller is beneficial I cannot think of any  system maker that doesn’t use one .

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25382
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2022, 10:33:49 pm »
I turn the tap off when I don't need it. Often between windows, certainly anytime more than a few seconds. The electricity stays switched on at all times from starting the first job to completing the last.

If I need to lower the flow (leaky windows, real georgian, leaded lights, sliding sash etc.) - I turn the tap down a bit.
It's a game of three halves!

Ian Sheppard

  • Posts: 1225
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2022, 10:02:23 am »
Emailed you Ian....the battery is only 3 months old and is showing full charge and operating normally with new controller.

Hi John. I have replied to your email earlier. Can i ask how old is the controller. Depending on age it might be worth us having a look at it.
V16 Is Here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AhbZirSlpI&t=8s
Polarity Protect technology

Ian Sheppard

  • Posts: 1225
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2022, 12:34:50 pm »
I long accepted that there are different ways to achieve the same end and there are different products on the market. Competition is no bad thing as it keeps us striving to improve the Spring Pump controller and keeps prices keen. The origins of our pump controller go back to a conversation with a window cleaner probably 18 odd years ago. The issue he was having were. High water use. 2 Pump pressure switch regularly failing, Pump motor over heating and failing.  Battery charge not lasting long.

A pump driven straight form a battery will draw around 7amps and hour assuming it is a 5,2 litre per minute pump running into 6mm hose actual flow to a brush is around 2.7 litres per minute this is due to the restriction created by the hose. 2.7 litres a minute is 162 litres an hour.  As The pressure switch is under high load (7amps) when a tap is closed the pressure switch opens to stop the pump and that high energy arch,s  across the switch burning it out.

The first pump controller V1 as we called it gave flow control over the pump meaning that the same amount of water could be used if needed But current draw dropped meaning that the battery charge lasted longer ( More time to work) People also found they could work just as effectively with less water on the glass. and flow rates were reduced. In a stroke the V1 meant both water and battery charge both lasted longer.
Next we look at protecting the pump pressure Switch and we introduced a Manual calibration. Now Rather than the pump pressure Switch opening under high load when flow stopped. The controller now stopped  the pump well before the pump pressure switch needed to. The controller reduced load on the pump motor and pressure switch, reduced battery current draw ( without effecting the maximum flow) Giving flow control over the pump meant that water used could be varied to suit each work site.  While using a tap can give variation of flow. The pump is still working flat out and working much harder than it needs to.

Controllers then Reduced  current draw, prevented pump pressure switches burning out and gave the ability to suit flow to each job. The Pressure switch protection has been very effective and it is unusual these day for a pump pressure switch to fail.

Over time and through conversations with distributors and suppliers the controller have developed and we have added Battery voltage indication, Current sensing check, Electrical checks, Reverse polarity protection. The 4th Button on the new V16 is a result of requests from people using controllers as is the reverse polarity protection.

In all the years we have designed, tested and built the controllers in the UK, we give a 2 year return to base warranty. We look to provide support to those using the controllers directly and produce online and paper user guides and information and videos for installation all that is freely available.

In terms of Flow, pressure and battery current draw the following covers all these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNM8HXASa0k&t=265s

Many thanks to Dave and Sam Pedan for the video

V16 Is Here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AhbZirSlpI&t=8s
Polarity Protect technology

Simon Trapani

  • Posts: 1559
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2022, 03:35:33 pm »
A flow controller makes so much sense for so many reasons. The spring V16's are fantastic controllers and at around £100 really are a no brainer. Many negatives to not having one and many positives to having one. Not even worth arguing about!😎👌

Educate me why I would be better off with one.

Hopefully you've now been educated! ;D

Top man Ian.

Missing Link

  • Posts: 44724
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2022, 05:39:46 pm »
Reverse polarity protection.

It was the lack of this in the early ones that switched me onto cheap Chinese motor controllers.

Pronouns She/Her/Madam/Ma'am

Ian Sheppard

  • Posts: 1225
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2022, 05:51:57 pm »
Reverse polarity protection.

It was the lack of this in the early ones that switched me onto cheap Chinese motor controllers.

The V9 and V11 used a Diode to protect the PCB and micro processor in the event of  miss connection to the battery ( Red & Black cables) . However this did short the Diode and the controller needed to come back to us for a repair.

V16 is a completely new Design from the ground up and this gave us an opportunity to improve reverse polarity protection  on the Red & Black. If these are miss connected to a battery the controller will not power up, Once the cables are correctly connected the V16 powers up as normal. Fitting a fuse will also increase the level of protection to both the controller and cables.

What ever controller is used fitting a correctly rated Inline Fuse between the battery and controller can save a lot of issues

Cheers

V16 Is Here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AhbZirSlpI&t=8s
Polarity Protect technology

CleanClear

  • Posts: 14692
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2022, 06:49:50 pm »
Reverse polarity protection.

It was the lack of this in the early ones that switched me onto cheap Chinese motor controllers.

I'd love to spend a day in your brain. It was easier to make your own controller than consistently get black to black and red to red correct ?  ;D ;D
*Status*--------Currently Online---------

Smudger

  • Posts: 13438
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2022, 07:03:02 pm »
controller wire were to always red and black

when I had an early pure PF system both controllers had nothing but black wires - both to the battery and the pump
that made life quite difficult

Darran
Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25382
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2022, 07:46:10 pm »
A flow controller makes so much sense for so many reasons. The spring V16's are fantastic controllers and at around £100 really are a no brainer. Many negatives to not having one and many positives to having one. Not even worth arguing about!😎👌

Educate me why I would be better off with one.

Hopefully you've now been educated! ;D

Top man Ian.

Not really. I see no practical benefit for me. In the last 6 years have never had a pump fail and have never had a low battery issue. I use about 400 litres of water on a 6 hour day on domestic. I really don't get the issue.

Many times I hear of people on here bewailing their flow controllers playing up.

I really would change if there was a practical benefit to me so here's a question. How often do you vary the flow on your controller to suit the conditions of the job you are doing? Do you turn off your water when you move between groups of windows?

Talk me through - say - a domestic job that you do; let's say a pair of average semis from one van stop. Here's what I do.

Pull up reel out hose, clip in tap, position brush to first top window. Turn on tap to desired flow (usually full) - if the next window is with a couple of seconds don't turn off. If it is more than 5 seconds or so away, flick the tap off and back on when I get the brush in position. Carry on until the job is done. Tap off. Reel in, unclip tap and wrap it round the reel.

Now let's say a farmhouse with some real sliding sash Georgian windows. Now I adjust the tap down - especially when doing the lower leaf and not wanting to spray water and bring dust, grit, muck down from the gap. But when I want to do do the UPVC/metal patio doors or extension or rooflights I want full power so turn the power up. How would you do this?
It's a game of three halves!

CleanClear

  • Posts: 14692
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2022, 07:49:34 pm »
Tap off.

Thats some faff, a tap ? Most of us use univalves now i suspect ?
*Status*--------Currently Online---------

Splash & dash

  • Posts: 4364
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2022, 07:49:49 pm »
I turn the tap off when I don't need it. Often between windows, certainly anytime more than a few seconds. The electricity stays switched on at all times from starting the first job to completing the last.

If I need to lower the flow (leaky windows, real georgian, leaded lights, sliding sash etc.) - I turn the tap down a bit.


Doing this will put constant pressure on the pressure switch causing premature failure but if you have done that for years then guess just carry on 😂😂

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25382
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2022, 07:54:58 pm »
Tap off.

Thats some faff, a tap ? Most of us use univalves now i suspect ?

Can you use a univalve to adjust the flow? Does it work well with a swivel head?
It's a game of three halves!

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25382
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2022, 07:57:13 pm »
I turn the tap off when I don't need it. Often between windows, certainly anytime more than a few seconds. The electricity stays switched on at all times from starting the first job to completing the last.

If I need to lower the flow (leaky windows, real georgian, leaded lights, sliding sash etc.) - I turn the tap down a bit.


Doing this will put constant pressure on the pressure switch causing premature failure but if you have done that for years then guess just carry on 😂😂

I have. One pump gets 80% of the use but it's flow and operation is no worse than the the second pump when that gets used.

They are badged Gardiner pumps and they stopped selling them years ago.
It's a game of three halves!

Simon Trapani

  • Posts: 1559
Re: Flow controller
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2022, 08:00:01 pm »
A flow controller makes so much sense for so many reasons. The spring V16's are fantastic controllers and at around £100 really are a no brainer. Many negatives to not having one and many positives to having one. Not even worth arguing about!😎👌

Educate me why I would be better off with one.

Hopefully you've now been educated! ;D

Top man Ian.

Not really. I see no practical benefit for me. In the last 6 years have never had a pump fail and have never had a low battery issue. I use about 400 litres of water on a 6 hour day on domestic. I really don't get the issue.

Many times I hear of people on here bewailing their flow controllers playing up.

I really would change if there was a practical benefit to me so here's a question. How often do you vary the flow on your controller to suit the conditions of the job you are doing? Do you turn off your water when you move between groups of windows?

Talk me through - say - a domestic job that you do; let's say a pair of average semis from one van stop. Here's what I do.

Pull up reel out hose, clip in tap, position brush to first top window. Turn on tap to desired flow (usually full) - if the next window is with a couple of seconds don't turn off. If it is more than 5 seconds or so away, flick the tap off and back on when I get the brush in position. Carry on until the job is done. Tap off. Reel in, unclip tap and wrap it round the reel.

Now let's say a farmhouse with some real sliding sash Georgian windows. Now I adjust the tap down - especially when doing the lower leaf and not wanting to spray water and bring dust, grit, muck down from the gap. But when I want to do do the UPVC/metal patio doors or extension or rooflights I want full power so turn the power up. How would you do this?

Well you can lead a horse to water but...

Are you old, stubborn & stuck in your ways by any chance?