[mike1986]

Can’t seem to find a categorical answer for this. Are business exempt? They just  specifically mentioned there would be a ban on cleaning windows on tv 

[EandM]

Yes.

[Smudger]

Farmers still watering fields

premier sides still watering their pitches

I would say so ( apart from Daz who uses a hose pipe 

Darran

[Ascjim]

Yes, commercial use is exempt.

[zesty]

Someone needs to pin a message at the top of the page saying ‘hose pipe bans do not include window cleaners’

[Pete Thompson]

"Hosepipe bans" don't exist anymore, they were replaced by Temporary Use Bans (TUBs)

And they CAN include commercial use, depending on what the water company decides.

But, this is a critical point, the actual law states that in a Temporary Use Ban, there is a statutory exemption for Health and Safety use.  Section 12 of the The Water Use (Temporary Bans) Order 2010 says : (note section 12(2) )

12.—(1) The category of use in section 76(2)(i) of the Act applies only to the cleaning of the external walls or windows of domestic premises.

(2) Using a hosepipe to clean the walls or windows of domestic premises for health or safety reasons is not to be treated as falling within the category of use in that section.

(3) In that section, “domestic premises” means—

(a)a building used principally as a dwelling or dwellings;

(b)a garage, shed, outbuilding or other building or structure used or enjoyed in connection with a building mentioned in sub-paragraph (a); or

(c)a wall or other means of enclosure within the curtilage of a building mentioned in sub-paragraph (a).

[Read it here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2231/article/12 ]

If you're wondering if this H&S exemption applies to us, then look at this

UKWI CODE OF PRACTICE AND GUIDANCE FOR WATER COMPANIES ON WATER USE RESTRICTIONS – 2013
(All UK water companies are signatories to this, as shown on pages 7 & 8 )

Page 38 of this document states:

“- The use of water fed poles for window cleaning at height is permitted under the H&S statutory exemption.

- The restrictions do not apply where the cleaning apparatus is not connected to the mains supply”

[Read the full thing here : https://www.water.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/managing-through-drought-code-of-practice-min-ilovepdf-compressed.pdf ]

Apparently, in the 2011-2012 drought, some of the water companies told window cleaners to go back to using ladders.  Window cleaners pointed out to them that this would breach the Work at Height regulations, as a safer alternative could be used.  The result was that, in drafting the new Tempoary Use Bans, they decided that protecting people from the serious risk of falls from height trumped saving the tiny amount of water (relatively speaking) that window cleaners use.
 
A good result.

[NBwcs]

"Hosepipe bans" don't exist anymore, they were replaced by Temporary Use Bans (TUBs)

And they CAN include commercial use, depending on what the water company decides.

But, this is a critical point, the actual law states that in a Temporary Use Ban, there is a statutory exemption for Health and Safety use.  Section 12 of the The Water Use (Temporary Bans) Order 2010 says : (note section 12(2) )

12.—(1) The category of use in section 76(2)(i) of the Act applies only to the cleaning of the external walls or windows of domestic premises.

(2) Using a hosepipe to clean the walls or windows of domestic premises for health or safety reasons is not to be treated as falling within the category of use in that section.

(3) In that section, “domestic premises” means—

(a)a building used principally as a dwelling or dwellings;

(b)a garage, shed, outbuilding or other building or structure used or enjoyed in connection with a building mentioned in sub-paragraph (a); or

(c)a wall or other means of enclosure within the curtilage of a building mentioned in sub-paragraph (a).

[Read it here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2231/article/12 ]

If you're wondering if this H&S exemption applies to us, then look at this

UKWI CODE OF PRACTICE AND GUIDANCE FOR WATER COMPANIES ON WATER USE RESTRICTIONS – 2013
(All UK water companies are signatories to this, as shown on pages 7 & 8 )

Page 38 of this document states:

“- The use of water fed poles for window cleaning at height is permitted under the H&S statutory exemption.

- The restrictions do not apply where the cleaning apparatus is not connected to the mains supply”

[Read the full thing here : https://www.water.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/managing-through-drought-code-of-practice-min-ilovepdf-compressed.pdf ]

Apparently, in the 2011-2012 drought, some of the water companies told window cleaners to go back to using ladders.  Window cleaners pointed out to them that this would breach the Work at Height regulations, as a safer alternative could be used.  The result was that, in drafting the new Tempoary Use Bans, they decided that protecting people from the serious risk of falls from height trumped saving the tiny amount of water (relatively speaking) that window cleaners use.
 
A good result.

Thankyou Pete, now that's what you call a comprehensive and thorough reply.

[Arnold Palmer]

Yes.

No.

[Smudger]

A fine post Pete.

Many thanks for researching that info

Darran

[AuRavelling79]

Yes.

No.

If you have any different information please post it; or is this because you are in Scotland?

[AuRavelling79]

What sometimes happens is that a customer either ...

1. Feels embarrassed having their windows cleaned during a "hosepipe ban" and asks us not to clean their windows.

2. Sees the opportunity to save a few bob this month by using (1.) above as an excuse.

Over the years when a hosepipe ban has been close in my area (Bristol Water seems to manage  way better than many areas of England because they tap into the water coming down the Severn as well as their own reservoirs) I have had a couple of customers query whether they should have their windows cleaned or not.

I always explain the above to them along with the fact that a proportion of my water is harvested off my roof and that I have over 3000 litres of storage. That seems to assuage any fears on their part. (I don't get into what proportion comes off of my roof and that 3000 litres would only last me just over a week and a half, mind!  - it's the way I tell'em ... )

[Arnold Palmer]

Yes.

No.

If you have any different information please post it; or is this because you are in Scotland?

I'm just being a cantankerous argumentative jock.

[Slacky]

Worse comes to the worse we might have to resort to cleaning downstairs windows traditionally.


Assuming as professional window cleaners that’s within you’re remit….

[Rob.Hall]

What! 
You don't mean.....you do don't you.
You want us to get the sqeegy out.
Shock horror!! 
 

[Bungle]

Worse comes to the worse we might have to resort to cleaning downstairs windows traditionally.


Assuming as professional window cleaners that’s within you’re remit….

I bet some window cleaners don't even own a mop and blade.

[Pete Thompson]

I had a spare afternoon while I was waiting for my van to be serviced, so I had the time to properly look into it. I’m glad I did!

I should point out that I came across several interesting points when researching this, including the minutes of a few of the drought order hearings that where held in 2011 by the water companies. What a bunch of chumps they were! They basically wanted to send us back up ladders!

The British Window Cleaning Academy and in particular, Craig Mawlam were specifically mentioned as having put forth the argument regarding the work at height regulations.

It’s not completely clear if that had any impact at the time, but I also saw a few references to a detailed document by the BWCA which was sent to all of the water companies and the regulator following the end of the drought, with estimates of how much water window cleaners use and the relative impact that would have balanced against the danger to life of working at height.

I think this exemption, that basically has given us a statutory right to continue working in drought conditions, is likely thanks to that submission by the BWCA.

[Ascjim]

There's a ban where I live and they say commercial use is exempt.

I guess it depends on how bad it gets.

[Pete Thompson]

There's a ban where I live and they say commercial use is exempt.

I guess it depends on how bad it gets.

Yes that’s what they call a “discretionary” exemption, in other words, the water company is permitting it at their discretion and can remove it at any time.

Ours is statutory, so built in to the law.

[Arnold Palmer]

Been chucking it down with rain here for the past 24hrs 

[Bungle]

Been chucking it down with rain here for the past 24hrs 

It chucked it down here for 2.4 minutes last night. It keeps threatening to pour but just isn't happening.