[Perfect Windows]

If there is actually a 'global warming crisis' as they claim, the solution is not CO2 reduction and certainly not electric vehicles.
You have to drive about 300,000 miles to offset the Carbon used in the manufacture of a EV but you won't do it on one battery.
The Earth has been here for billions of years and will continue to be here for billions of more years.
The simple solution is for humans to stop breeding at the current unsustainable rate and the problem will solve itself in 1-2 generations, after all you never see animals driving or using gas and electricity!

Not entirely sure where your figure comes from but what matters is whether EV is better than fossil fuel. Literally the first answer Google suggests it's significantly better:



From https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myth5

Yes, the Earth has indeed been here for ages. It's a question of whether you want it still to be habitable for humans in a few centuries. I certainly do.

How would you like to stop people breeding? Genuine question.

Vin

[Splash & dash]

If there is actually a 'global warming crisis' as they claim, the solution is not CO2 reduction and certainly not electric vehicles.
You have to drive about 300,000 miles to offset the Carbon used in the manufacture of a EV but you won't do it on one battery.
The Earth has been here for billions of years and will continue to be here for billions of more years.
The simple solution is for humans to stop breeding at the current unsustainable rate and the problem will solve itself in 1-2 generations, after all you never see animals driving or using gas and electricity!

Not entirely sure where your figure comes from but what matters is whether EV is better than fossil fuel. Literally the first answer Google suggests it's significantly better:



From https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myth5

Yes, the Earth has indeed been here for ages. It's a question of whether you want it still to be habitable for humans in a few centuries. I certainly do.

How would you like to stop people breeding? Genuine question.

Vin

Electric vehicles don’t have a 300 mile range , they may claim they have,  but  real world driving it will be considerably less , I have many customers that say they get half the distance that the manufacturers claim , and less is driving at night using , heater, heated rear screen , lights etc . I was looking at an electric man tge van quoted range in manufacturers blurb is 90 miles , real world use it’s less than 40 totally useless .

[G Griffin]

How would you like to stop people breeding? Genuine question.

Vin

Keep them away from the Prime Minister for a start.

[tlwcs]

If there is actually a 'global warming crisis' as they claim, the solution is not CO2 reduction and certainly not electric vehicles.
You have to drive about 300,000 miles to offset the Carbon used in the manufacture of a EV but you won't do it on one battery.
The Earth has been here for billions of years and will continue to be here for billions of more years.
The simple solution is for humans to stop breeding at the current unsustainable rate and the problem will solve itself in 1-2 generations, after all you never see animals driving or using gas and electricity!

Not entirely sure where your figure comes from but what matters is whether EV is better than fossil fuel. Literally the first answer Google suggests it's significantly better:



From https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myth5

Yes, the Earth has indeed been here for ages. It's a question of whether you want it still to be habitable for humans in a few centuries. I certainly do.

How would you like to stop people breeding? Genuine question.

Vin

Give them a transistor  radio ☹️

[Perfect Windows]

Electric vehicles don’t have a 300 mile range , they may claim they have,  but  real world driving it will be considerably less , I have many customers that say they get half the distance that the manufacturers claim , and less is driving at night using , heater, heated rear screen , lights etc . I was looking at an electric man tge van quoted range in manufacturers blurb is 90 miles , real world use it’s less than 40 totally useless .

Given that the average length of a driving journey in the UK was 6.8 miles in 2019* does not having a 300 mile range matter? I do 3,000 miles a year in the van. Per cleaning day that's 20 miles. Longest day I do is around 30 miles.

Even if that's all true, does it affect the claim that I was responding to, namely that electric cars take 300,000 miles to go carbon neutral?

Vin

*Source https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts01-average-number-of-trips-made-and-distance-travelled

[Splash & dash]

Electric vehicles don’t have a 300 mile range , they may claim they have,  but  real world driving it will be considerably less , I have many customers that say they get half the distance that the manufacturers claim , and less is driving at night using , heater, heated rear screen , lights etc . I was looking at an electric man tge van quoted range in manufacturers blurb is 90 miles , real world use it’s less than 40 totally useless .

Given that the average length of a driving journey in the UK was 6.8 miles in 2019* does not having a 300 mile range matter? I do 3,000 miles a year in the van. Per cleaning day that's 20 miles. Longest day I do is around 30 miles.

Even if that's all true, does it affect the claim that I was responding to, namely that electric cars take 300,000 miles to go carbon neutral?

Vin

*Source https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts01-average-number-of-trips-made-and-distance-travelled

Ime not against electric vehicles but they are no ware near ready for the commercial market place we do some work 300 miles away from home and if I had the electric equivalent of my diesel van I would have to stop and re charge it every 40-50  not an option . I wasn’t criticising what you had said I agree with you especially about the carbon footprint, it’s all spin by the government to try and force us to go electric.

[DJW]

600 miles round trip to clean some windows …. are you mad?

[SB Cleaning]

600 miles round trip to clean some windows …. are you mad?

Time to get some more work local 

[Shrek]

600 miles round trip to clean some windows …. are you mad?

Time to get some more work local 

Going 70 miles an hour without stopping,  a 600 mile trip could take over 8.5hrs! 😩
I hope your charging a premium rate 😁

[Splash & dash]

600 miles round trip to clean some windows …. are you mad?

Trust me it’s financially a no brainier been doing it 20 years we do a months normal money in 3-4 days

[Granny]

Electric vehicles don’t have a 300 mile range , they may claim they have,  but  real world driving it will be considerably less , I have many customers that say they get half the distance that the manufacturers claim , and less is driving at night using , heater, heated rear screen , lights etc . I was looking at an electric man tge van quoted range in manufacturers blurb is 90 miles , real world use it’s less than 40 totally useless .

Given that the average length of a driving journey in the UK was 6.8 miles in 2019* does not having a 300 mile range matter? I do 3,000 miles a year in the van. Per cleaning day that's 20 miles. Longest day I do is around 30 miles.

Even if that's all true, does it affect the claim that I was responding to, namely that electric cars take 300,000 miles to go carbon neutral?

Vin

*Source https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts01-average-number-of-trips-made-and-distance-travelled

Ime not against electric vehicles but they are no ware near ready for the commercial market place we do some work 300 miles away from home and if I had the electric equivalent of my diesel van I would have to stop and re charge it every 40-50  not an option . I wasn’t criticising what you had said I agree with you especially about the carbon footprint, it’s all spin by the government to try and force us to go electric.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/03/the-truth-about-electric-cars/
It's the Emperor's New Clothes!

[Splash & dash]

Electric vehicles don’t have a 300 mile range , they may claim they have,  but  real world driving it will be considerably less , I have many customers that say they get half the distance that the manufacturers claim , and less is driving at night using , heater, heated rear screen , lights etc . I was looking at an electric man tge van quoted range in manufacturers blurb is 90 miles , real world use it’s less than 40 totally useless .

Given that the average length of a driving journey in the UK was 6.8 miles in 2019* does not having a 300 mile range matter? I do 3,000 miles a year in the van. Per cleaning day that's 20 miles. Longest day I do is around 30 miles.

Even if that's all true, does it affect the claim that I was responding to, namely that electric cars take 300,000 miles to go carbon neutral?

Vin

*Source https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts01-average-number-of-trips-made-and-distance-travelled

Ime not against electric vehicles but they are no ware near ready for the commercial market place we do some work 300 miles away from home and if I had the electric equivalent of my diesel van I would have to stop and re charge it every 40-50  not an option . I wasn’t criticising what you had said I agree with you especially about the carbon footprint, it’s all spin by the government to try and force us to go electric.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/03/the-truth-about-electric-cars/
It's the Emperor's New Clothes!

Very interesting read thanks for sharing 👍

[Perfect Windows]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/03/the-truth-about-electric-cars/
It's the Emperor's New Clothes!

Interesting. Apart from the irrelevant polemical nonsense about fires (because there are never fires associated with petrol or diesel, are there?) the whole article is predicated on a claim that vehicles will not reach their break-even point.

Now, the break-even point mentioned is 52,000 miles (not the insane 300,000 miles of your earlier claim - any comment on that discrepancy?).

The writer simply asserts that that mileage won't be reached. Not a squit of evidence, just a statement.  Quote: "Many of the EVs sold today are ‘urban runabouts’ – that is, vehicles that will never reach the CO2 ‘break even’ point, and will therefore emit more CO2 than a petrol equivalent."

Average mileage in the UK (https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/average-car-mileage-uk) is 7,400 miles. For the writer's claim to be true, he's arguing that cars will be scrapped before they are seven years old. Do you believe that? Really?

As for "If I replace my 19-year-old car tomorrow, and take the ‘green option’ instead of the petrol option, I will be poorer, because the EV equivalent is so much more expensive, and it will only finally start to achieve CO2-emissions savings over the petrol rival some time in the late 2040s", that would suggest that he drives around 2,000 miles a year. Do you believe that? Really?

Tell me, does all that sound reasonable to you? Seriously, give it some thought. I'd be interested in what you think rather than what other people tell you.

Vin

[Splash & dash]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/03/the-truth-about-electric-cars/
It's the Emperor's New Clothes!

Interesting. Apart from the irrelevant polemical nonsense about fires (because there are never fires associated with petrol or diesel, are there?) the whole article is predicated on a claim that vehicles will not reach their break-even point.

Now, the break-even point mentioned is 52,000 miles (not the insane 300,000 miles of your earlier claim - any comment on that discrepancy?).

The writer simply asserts that that mileage won't be reached. Not a squit of evidence, just a statement.  Quote: "Many of the EVs sold today are ‘urban runabouts’ – that is, vehicles that will never reach the CO2 ‘break even’ point, and will therefore emit more CO2 than a petrol equivalent."

Average mileage in the UK (https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/average-car-mileage-uk) is 7,400 miles. For the writer's claim to be true, he's arguing that cars will be scrapped before they are seven years old. Do you believe that? Really?

As for "If I replace my 19-year-old car tomorrow, and take the ‘green option’ instead of the petrol option, I will be poorer, because the EV equivalent is so much more expensive, and it will only finally start to achieve CO2-emissions savings over the petrol rival some time in the late 2040s", that would suggest that he drives around 2,000 miles a year. Do you believe that? Really?

Tell me, does all that sound reasonable to you? Seriously, give it some thought. I'd be interested in what you think rather than what other people tell you.

Vin

The bit about fires is very relevant as a watch manager in the  fire service it’s a valid point , petrol and diesel cars are easy to extinguish, but battery fires with lithium arnt electric cars have much bigger batteries than a convenient vehicle , it’s a growing problem that will only get worse . Some recovery firms won’t recover   electric cars either as a recovery truck driver was electrocuted and died whilst loading a car onto a car transporter . If the  batteries earth out they can  cause no end of problems this happens when they are involved in accidents and get damaged a normal lead acid battery isn’t a problem due to its small capacity and size but theses lithium batteries are a different kettle of fish .

[Perfect Windows]

The bit about fires is very relevant as a watch manager in the  fire service it’s a valid point , petrol and diesel cars are easy to extinguish, but battery fires with lithium arnt electric cars have much bigger batteries than a convenient vehicle , it’s a growing problem that will only get worse . Some recovery firms won’t recover   electric cars either as a recovery truck driver was electrocuted and died whilst loading a car onto a car transporter . If the  batteries earth out they can  cause no end of problems this happens when they are involved in accidents and get damaged a normal lead acid battery isn’t a problem due to its small capacity and size but theses lithium batteries are a different kettle of fish .

I'm not disagreeing with your points. What I am saying is that it's utterly irrelevant in the context of a conversation about diesel prices and the CO2 impact of EV versus combustion engine cars.

[Splash & dash]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/03/03/the-truth-about-electric-cars/
It's the Emperor's New Clothes!

Interesting. Apart from the irrelevant polemical nonsense about fires (because there are never fires associated with petrol or diesel, are there?) the whole article is predicated on a claim that vehicles will not reach their break-even point.

Now, the break-even point mentioned is 52,000 miles (not the insane 300,000 miles of your earlier claim - any comment on that discrepancy?).

The writer simply asserts that that mileage won't be reached. Not a squit of evidence, just a statement.  Quote: "Many of the EVs sold today are ‘urban runabouts’ – that is, vehicles that will never reach the CO2 ‘break even’ point, and will therefore emit more CO2 than a petrol equivalent."

Average mileage in the UK (https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/average-car-mileage-uk) is 7,400 miles. For the writer's claim to be true, he's arguing that cars will be scrapped before they are seven years old. Do you believe that? Really?

As for "If I replace my 19-year-old car tomorrow, and take the ‘green option’ instead of the petrol option, I will be poorer, because the EV equivalent is so much more expensive, and it will only finally start to achieve CO2-emissions savings over the petrol rival some time in the late 2040s", that would suggest that he drives around 2,000 miles a year. Do you believe that? Really?

Tell me, does all that sound reasonable to you? Seriously, give it some thought. I'd be interested in what you think rather than what other people tell you.

Vin

Evan the car manufacturers themselves are saying the life of theses lithium batteries is 8 years so what that article is saying is they will never off set the carbon footprint beacause they won’t last long enough , 2/3 of the cost of theses cars is the batteries so it won’t be cost effective to replace them the cars will be scrap value only , the government are looking at introducing car leasing or rental rather than ownership so the manufacturers will be responsible for  disposal of the vehicle after 8+ years , audi according to my local dealer are in discussions with many government s around the globe about this very subject so doubt it won’t be long before all manufacturers go the same way .

[Perfect Windows]

Where do you get the cost of the battery being 2/3 of the cost of the car?

I've not looked deeply into the matter but here is literally the first set of prices I've found: https://bookmygarage.com/electric-vehicles/how-much-does-an-electric-battery-cost-uk/

As for longevity, again, literally the first numbers I've found disagree:
https://www.verified.org/articles/guides/the-longevity-of-electric-vehicles-battery#jump1

Given that every time I search, the first numbers I find seem to disagree (I'm not looking hard at all), I suspect there might just be an agenda in articles like the one in Spiked. I'm not saying there is but when each fact I check seems to be inaccurate in the direction of downplaying any EV benefits there might be, it makes me suspicious.

Vin

[Splash & dash]

Where do you get the cost of the battery being 2/3 of the cost of the car?

I've not looked deeply into the matter but here is literally the first set of prices I've found: https://bookmygarage.com/electric-vehicles/how-much-does-an-electric-battery-cost-uk/

As for longevity, again, literally the first numbers I've found disagree:
https://www.verified.org/articles/guides/the-longevity-of-electric-vehicles-battery#jump1

Given that every time I search, the first numbers I find seem to disagree (I'm not looking hard at all), I suspect there might just be an agenda in articles like the one in Spiked. I'm not saying there is but when each fact I check seems to be inaccurate in the direction of downplaying any EV benefits there might be, it makes me suspicious.

Vin

Local audi dealer and bmw dealer both said to replace the battery’s is 2/3 the cost of the vehicle on an average  its a complex job to replace them apparently it involves removing most  of the interior of the vehicle . I should have added that they did say at vehicle age of 6-8 years so it’s not cost effective to replace them .

[Perfect Windows]

Local audi dealer and bmw dealer both said to replace the battery’s is 2/3 the cost of the vehicle on an average  its a complex job to replace them apparently it involves removing most  of the interior of the vehicle . I should have added that they did say at vehicle age of 6-8 years so it’s not cost effective to replace them .

I find it strange that dealers are talking replacement after 8 years when Consumer Reports (US equivalent of Which) are talking 200,000 miles. (https://www.myev.com/research/ev-101/how-long-should-an-electric-cars-battery-last/amp)

I don't have a dog in this fight: I have a diesel car and a diesel van and I'll run them till they die.

One thing I do think is happening: battery technology is changing very fast indeed and I suspect that "facts" are quoted by people that are well out of date. Then you end up with people hearing that "it takes 300,000 miles to break even on an EV." It gets repeated and repeated until eventually it's believed regardless of how wrong it is.

When technology is moving fast you have to keep up with the changes as much as you can.

[Richard Groves]

Where do you get the cost of the battery being 2/3 of the cost of the car?

I've not looked deeply into the matter but here is literally the first set of prices I've found: https://bookmygarage.com/electric-vehicles/how-much-does-an-electric-battery-cost-uk/

As for longevity, again, literally the first numbers I've found disagree:
https://www.verified.org/articles/guides/the-longevity-of-electric-vehicles-battery#jump1

Given that every time I search, the first numbers I find seem to disagree (I'm not looking hard at all), I suspect there might just be an agenda in articles like the one in Spiked. I'm not saying there is but when each fact I check seems to be inaccurate in the direction of downplaying any EV benefits there might be, it makes me suspicious.

Vin

Local audi dealer and bmw dealer both said to replace the battery’s is 2/3 the cost of the vehicle on an average  its a complex job to replace them apparently it involves removing most  of the interior of the vehicle . I should have added that they did say at vehicle age of 6-8 years so it’s not cost effective to replace them .

That just sounds stupid to me. Look at anything else that uses batteries, they are reasonably easy to replace. On the dawn of this new tech era, they should be redesigning and future proofing ev's from the ground up. Scrapping an 8 year old car because it's batteries are spent and not cost effective to replace is not the way forward.

Back to the OP question. Costs me approx £60 more a month in fuel.