[Sarah Sarill]

Yep!

Would you believe it, I've got a chest infection!

Could tell something was up.   

Taking appropriate meds then I hope. ?

Dont spend too much time on-line then or you'll get higt blood pressure too !!! 

Sarah

[Paul Coleman]

To be honest this is now getting weary for me. Last night my wife told me just to ignore the "knockers" and carry on with our success story. She knows me better than anyone else and is proud of me and what my colleagues and myself are doing. That is worth a lot to me and outweighs by far any derogatory comments made by any persons whatever their motivations may be.

Nuff said..  Gail (the boss) is making me a cuppa and I have orders to forget this and relax (Which usually means shopping)

Andrew

I haven't come across any commercially produced trolley that would completely suit my needs (yet).  It seems to be a matter of finding the closest and doing a bit of adapting (either to the trolley or to the working methods or getting a longer van) OR building a DIY trolley.
For any trolley manufacturer, the issue is about supplying what he feels most of his current and potential customers will need most of the time - and that is about the best anyone can wish for I feel.
Each manufacturer will have a different view of what features to include to meet those needs.
You may want to advertise more in Brighton if you are starting a line in pink trolleys Andrew.

[Paul Coleman]

Sorry guys but the REAL test of wether the product is the 'one for your business' can only be argued if you have tested it yourself.

So it may be ' too heavy'  it may need filling to often'  it may be the 'wrong colour' etc etc but IMO if it does not suit, dont buy. 

This forumi s all about opinions and persnal views on products but keep it unbiased and list the pros and cons for others to make a well  informed decision. Whats annoys me though is that Newbies on this site look to the more experienced views and often replies and opinions are so strong in their like or dislike of the product it almost makes their minds up for them.

Andrews trolley has obviously fitted the specification of countless w/c on this forum alone so it must have its worth in the marketplace. 

We currently use an Omnitrolley and, (sorry Glyn) butfind it most unattractive to look at although it is reliable and holds 50 ltrs of water which is ideal for top and bottoms of residential work in one street.

My humle view is ' Try before you buy and make your own mind up'

Horses for courses but it obviously has its place in the trolley market. Keep at it Andrew,

Sarah

Also, the issue of whether a particular trolley suits somebody can depend on how their static system (if any) is set up.  For instance, some peoples water will have gone through both RO and DI before reaching their van mount (if they have one).  Mine has only been RO'd before getting to the van.  That's why I prefer a trolley with a small DI unit on it.  Although I can fill my Omnitrolley through the van mounted DI, I prefer a faster way of filling a trolley but this means that I sometimes fill it with RO'd water.
In fact, I fill the Omnitrolley with pure water via the van mounted DI while I fill the van mount from the static unit.  Any trolley topups through the day are done with RO'd water from the van mount via a submersible pump and transfer hose hooked up to the leisure battery (for speed).  As my water from the RO is 007, the DI may be unnecessary but I prefer to keep the TDS as low as possible.

If my water into the van was already totally pure, I would consider Andrew's trolley an option (it has no DI) - especially as its footprint is so small.

[windows_chepstow]

If my water into the van was already totally pure, I would consider Andrew's trolley an option (it has no DI) - especially as its footprint is so small.

Strangely enough there is another trolley manufactured by Strata and it's also called the 'FREEDOM TROLLEY SYSTEM' (Maybe they nicked the name from Andrew's trolley) and it looks a smart enough bit of kit and actually has a DI chamber on the rear of it.

It's a DI only system (You only have to fill it with tap water (so my leaflet says)) retailing at £499 with a 28 litre tank.

It's smart looking, but again, appears to be heavy though.  You'd need a van for this system too.

If Andrew is interested; since they're using the same name as his trolley, their telephone number is 0800 107 7729.

The company sent me a posh-shiny leaflet through the post.

[dustycorner]

Hi all,

I would make just 2 suggestion for Andrew's freedom trolley system.

Firstly the pipe/tube which goe into the 25ltr container should be weighted at the end so it sits at the bottom of the container and doesn't curl round the container.

Secondly  i would fit enough hose to allow me to leave the trolley in the front garden, just taking pole around the backs.

Niether are major adjustments its a good systems does what its says on the tin.

Cheers Mark.

[matt]

Matt, help some fellow window cleaners out and post your DIY link here; to stop them from purchasing a white elephant.

Matt's site shows you how to build a 'same spec' trolley system for under a third of the cost.

I'll concede to Andrew that DIY WFP trolleys don't look as professional as his.

http://d.co.uk

only because you asked

and i like you

[matt]

the deisgn of the freedom trolley isnt that bad really

afterall its a sack truck with a metal box holding the battery and pump

its the same design in theory as LOADS of DIY'er system

sure the DIY'er saved 000's of pounds aswell 

[windows_chepstow]

the deisgn of the freedom trolley isnt that bad really

afterall its a sack truck with a metal box holding the battery and pump

its the same design in theory as LOADS of DIY'er system

sure the DIY'er saved 000's of pounds aswell 

I think you mean

1000's of pounds

!  Since 000 pounds is very little; nothing in fact!

Anyway, most entry level WFP users will begin with a trolley or a backpack system; then upgrade to a van-mounted system when and if they see the requirement and associated benifits.

Two local guys to me both began by using trolley systems and eventually up-graded to a van-mounted system.

One of them started with a Freedom Trolley, but found it too cumbersome; so sold it on this site for half of what he paid for it within a few months of getting it.

Next he bought a backpack and found that better, but tired of re-filling it (he does 100% WFP; as opposed to 'tops only').  Then he bought a van and a van- mounted system and also made his own 90 litre trolley system.  (Subsequent to this, I've still seen him using the backpack; for those difficult to get areas).

He's a bright bloke, an ex engineer of some description, and he told me that Andrew's Freedom Trolley was too heavy for the little water it carries.  He also prefers the backpack to the Freedom. 

Another user has told me he lost weight using the Freedom Trolley (can't be a bad thing though; can it; I could do with losing a bit) because it can be so physically demanding, lugging it about.

What I think is wrong is that trolley systems are aimed at the entry level WFP user and Mr McCann uses this site to advertise his product to the window cleaners who want to take the first step towards changing over to WFP.  They maybe experienced in 'trad', but inexperienced with the world of WFP.

I don't think the product is that suitable for most entry level window cleaners, since most trad users work from a car, and still will carry ladders; you can't get the system out of your boot without a fight when you've ladders on top.   Unlike the backpack which can fit in one of your rear seat footwells.

The Freedom is also heavy and cumbersome and the name is a misnomer.  Try getting it up an alleyway with umpteen dustbins in your way.  You can't unless you're got arms like 'Garth'.  But you can with a backpack weighing half the weight and carrying just seven litres of water less.

Steps anywhere are a problem too.  Just six or seven steps really slows you down.  With a backpack you just walk down them and when you get to your window, take the backpack off your shoulder and start work.  It's easier and quicker, and as Andrew says; mobility = profitability.

Anyway, the 'same' system specification could be put together for a fraction of what he's charging; therefore I think he's using the naivity of fellow window cleaners to make a profit and citing, 'but I only want window cleaners to be safe' as a justification.

But that's only my opinion; but I could be, and often am; wrong; according to Wor Lass.

[mark dew]

One of them started with a Freedom Trolley, but found it too cumbersome; so sold it on this site for half of what he paid for it within a few months of getting it.

Hiya i just thought i'd weigh in and say that i bought the trolley mentioned.
I paid not much less than if i'd bought just the trolley new. About £50 less i think.
So it wasn't much of a loss.
I was told when i enquired that it wasn't suitable for his round as there were too many steps. He was quite frank about it weight and capability.
I'm in suffolk where it is flat and it isn't the same problem with the work i have.

I use it as a van mount 99% of the time only occasionally using it on its own.
Overall i'm very happy with it.
There are issues with it and for me the biggest drawback is the height of it. I'm just over 6 ft and i can't pull it around standing up straight. An adjustable handle would be nice.
I couldn't use it all day as the only tool, but it is a dead handy piece of kit.
I haven't used the backpack but it does look very good value for money.
As sarah says it's horses for courses and depending on your round the positives and negatives are slightly different.
I think if you buy something that is not suitable then it's a case of poor research.
Great thread though 'cos i've only really focused on the positives of the trolley.

mark

[Andrew McCann]

Hi Mark

I am glad you are getting on OK with it.

Your point about terrain brings up exactly the reason we first redesigned the trolley. Where I am its also pretty flat although we do go up and down steps with it a bit no problem but where someone has many steps or very hilly terrain we recognised that improvements could be made and reacted swiftly.

The initial redesign addressed the issue of hilly terrain and steps. The centre of gravity was also lowered considerably which made it much more balanced when loaded and therefore far easier to move around with ease. We have many customers now using it in very hilly terrain who are very happy with it.

The last redesign was a natural progression from that. We are of course aware that weight is an issue with any system and we have now achieved a  combination  of weight,balance,compactness and robustness which we are very happy with and are confident will be hard to beat.

No one has to buy our sytems but hundreds have. A very large percentage of  whom are already experienced WFP users. Of course we dont have 100% customer satisfaction. No company ever achieves that. We do try to work towards it though. This is reflected by the number of recommendations made by and additional orders placed by existing customers.

Now, in the light of the nature of this thread at times and in reaction to some of the points made. After consultation with the other principals of the business a decision has been made that in future unless requested to do so no pictures etc of new developments will be posted here by myself.

Andrew

[chris@c.m.s]

Well I have a backpack and from my limited experiance I would gladly swap for the freedom trolley I find the backpack a pain in the ass to keep refilling I would rather just swap containers over and have the added knowledge that a microbore hose can be added and still plenty of psi to do anything I want it to do, yes the backpack is handy but it has be be worth having both systems, if you buy the backpack you have just got a backpack if you buy the freedom trolly or simular diy  you have a system capable of running from a van or a mobile element.       

[jinky230]

guys andrews trolley is a very good piece of kit, and if you are in the market to get yourself  up and running on wfp then this is the kit

however if you do have a bit of time on your side then you can improve on the design.I originally phoned andrew about the freedom trolleu then went on to build my own, I did not think andrew had the perfect solution, as it was minus a hose reel, and as tosh said how do you get around narroy lanes with the trolley.Tosh is not trying to bring andrew down in anuy way but only bring to light the fault in andrews system,if you were using it on adaily basis

I am going to load up pic of my trolley and hope it helps chaps or andrew to question his system, because even thou it is a good setup it is not completed to use on a daily basis

ps the pics are on jouk site have a look and judge for youself if the system need improved

http://jouk45.forumup.co.uk/forum-1-jouk45.html


jinky

[jinky230]

guys excuse the spelling mistakes just in from a  wedding and had a few

jinky

[jouk45]

must have been a good wedding lol

[Paul Coleman]

Hi Mark

I am glad you are getting on OK with it.

Your point about terrain brings up exactly the reason we first redesigned the trolley. Where I am its also pretty flat although we do go up and down steps with it a bit no problem but where someone has many steps or very hilly terrain we recognised that improvements could be made and reacted swiftly.

The initial redesign addressed the issue of hilly terrain and steps. The centre of gravity was also lowered considerably which made it much more balanced when loaded and therefore far easier to move around with ease. We have many customers now using it in very hilly terrain who are very happy with it.

The last redesign was a natural progression from that. We are of course aware that weight is an issue with any system and we have now achieved a  combination  of weight,balance,compactness and robustness which we are very happy with and are confident will be hard to beat.

No one has to buy our sytems but hundreds have. A very large percentage of  whom are already experienced WFP users. Of course we dont have 100% customer satisfaction. No company ever achieves that. We do try to work towards it though. This is reflected by the number of recommendations made by and additional orders placed by existing customers.

Now, in the light of the nature of this thread at times and in reaction to some of the points made. After consultation with the other principals of the business a decision has been made that in future unless requested to do so no pictures etc of new developments will be posted here by myself.

Andrew

That's a pity Andrew.
I hope you intend to make an announcement whenever you make an upgrade though.  Your trolleys look OK to me - though I find another type of trolley more suitable at the moment.

[Andrew McCann]

Yes Shiner. If we do any upgrades/alterations there will just be a simple announcement made.

Jinky referring to your point about having a hose reel attached permanently. We have looked at this and actually tried it out. We dont find it a benefit at all. The answer is simplicity itself. You pretty soon get to know what properties you need extra hose for so all we and many others do is carry with us a self contained portable hose reel. All you do is plug it in and it unreels as you go. A cheap and nasty one isnt good but there are some very good ones at very reasonable cost that are excellent. The vast majority of properties do not need a hose reel so you arent carrying something you dont really need to.  You can fit one though if you want to. We honestly would fit one as standard if it was really needed but it then makes the unit more bulky and awkward to handle. The choice is there if you want to fit one though.

Breakfast time now 

Andrew

[jinky230]

good point andrew never thought of it that way

personnally I thought of the hose reel, as I have only came across a few houses that you can get into the backs with a trolley/ they are mostly modern 4 bed detached with small lanes to side usually with 3 wheely bins and kids trikes

when you go to the backs they usually have decking which is slightly raised and this is usually cluttered with table chairs,patio heaters etc

to go back and forward to the vehicle to pull out a hose would take forever

and it might be a thing to advice future customers to explain their type of work

I am not trying to criticise your product but mainly help with points of view
to make a good product into an excellent product

jinky

[Andrew McCann]

Thanks Jinky.

I get around a dozen new enquiries every working day and by far the most important pieces of information I try to get are the type of work and details of the vehicles that people use. I do try to explain about the hose issues and currently advise them to do as I have said above.

Having said that perhaps some would like a hosereel attached as an option. Thanks for your input. I will look into the feasability of it.

Cheers

Andrew

[jinky230]

Andrew I am not trying to tell you how to do your job but simply giving some help

I had a look at the pics of the trolley, and thought could you not weld say a hook to the handle with the hook facing upways and another hook at the base facing downways, then people could just wrap say about 15 metres of microbore around the hooks,this would save them going back and forward to the vehicle

just a thought

jinky

[Andrew McCann]

Hi again Jinky

I really do appreciate what you are trying to do and the spirit in which you are doing it.

I can see why a hosereel being attached is very important to you because of the nature of your work. Isn't it amazing how even domestic work can vary so much? We do a real hotch potch of work as I have already said and we hardly ever use a hosereel. When we do though we usually know exactly when its needed and just pop it onto the trolley when we have done the front or whatever. We all work in ways that suit us. Great minds think alike though... The hook idea has already been considered as a possibility using microbore. It may become standard. If it does I will make a simple announcement to that effect.

Once again thanks for your very valued input 

Andrew