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Smudger

  • Posts: 13438
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2022, 06:23:38 pm »
I’ll agree with that - some think re a matter of strolling around - clean 3 maybe 4 houses go home - these types tend to leave after 3 days 🤪

Darran
Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience

jo5hm4n

  • Posts: 948
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2022, 10:16:29 pm »

I think that’s part of the problem right there. You are running a second van for a part time semi retired worker who is topping up his income. When you look at the running costs of the second van there is no way these costs can be covered by a semi retired person working 2 days a week after you have paid his wages and other associated costs. This will undoubtedly be draining your profits.
[/quote]

I totally get where you are coming from but i looked into this also and was completely suprised by the actual results.  The main van is fairly new and full of expensive gear.  Costs for this van are as you would expect for a decent setup.

The second van used by the semi retired worker, i went with a different play here.  I bought a 10 year old transit connect fitted it with a DIY System myself before my health problems got really bad.  The cost to run this van are minimal and even only being used 2 days per week it doesn't affect the margins as much as you would think.

Put it this way, when i made the decision to go from 1 van to 2 vans even with a part time worker, my bank balance grew and yearly profits were way up.  Suprisingly even having a 2nd van just doing 2-3 days a week made a big difference in my yearly profits.

The reason for this is because there are certain static business expenses that are required to run 1 van, but when you get a second van, these static business expenses didn't increase at all, therefore from the added turnover to the business the actual net profit was much higher.

For example if you have 1 van, you still might need to pay for a website, mobile phone, van insurance, employers liability insurance, water production, cleanerplanner software, paying accountant fees etc.  But when you go from 1 van to 2 vans, most of these costs do not increase at all, and the ones that do increase only proportionately.

 :) :)


Smudger

  • Posts: 13438
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2022, 11:21:47 pm »
old van or new - the cost of running it is higher than you think - your paying for insurance - yet its only out half the available time - running costs - fuel - tyres - servicing - while fuel will not be as great as out on the road all the time but still higher proportionatly to its time out on the road

I think mostly you have had some great replies to your query - its time for you to take stock and look at what's been said - ref wasted time - part time chap - hourly rate etc...

do some hard, honest thinking and draw up an action plan

Darran
Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2491
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #63 on: February 27, 2022, 09:00:05 pm »
So how many hours a day do they work.?

Darran

Generally it's 8:30am-4:30pm but recently i wont lie there have been multiple days where my main worker has been finishing his £250 daily target by say 3:30pm etc and i have just been letting him go home early.  I always had an arrangement where you get the work done then you can go home early or you can stay out later and get more work done.

basic problem is your staff aren't doing enough work.

if you just pay them 30% of turnover this looks after itself to some extent

i think the absolute min they should do is £300 of work a day. many people can do considerably more. my min for staff is £350 a day.

thats a pretty easy day too. they'll be starting at 8 and finishing about 2 (give or take depending on the person)

if you aren't hitting that i suspect your work isn't condensed enough, your staff aren't working fast enough, or your work is underpriced.

i found when i switched to a percentage of earnings model it changed everything  with my staff in terms of their attitude and their work ethic.

hope that helps

R



iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

jo5hm4n

  • Posts: 948
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #64 on: February 27, 2022, 09:05:25 pm »
old van or new - the cost of running it is higher than you think - your paying for insurance - yet its only out half the available time - running costs - fuel - tyres - servicing - while fuel will not be as great as out on the road all the time but still higher proportionatly to its time out on the road

I think mostly you have had some great replies to your query - its time for you to take stock and look at what's been said - ref wasted time - part time chap - hourly rate etc...

do some hard, honest thinking and draw up an action plan

Darran

Yes you are right, i will do some thinking and take some action with my staff when i figure out what the next move is.  Thank you.

jo5hm4n

  • Posts: 948
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #65 on: February 27, 2022, 09:09:02 pm »
So how many hours a day do they work.?

Darran

Generally it's 8:30am-4:30pm but recently i wont lie there have been multiple days where my main worker has been finishing his £250 daily target by say 3:30pm etc and i have just been letting him go home early.  I always had an arrangement where you get the work done then you can go home early or you can stay out later and get more work done.

basic problem is your staff aren't doing enough work.

if you just pay them 30% of turnover this looks after itself to some extent

i think the absolute min they should do is £300 of work a day. many people can do considerably more. my min for staff is £350 a day.

thats a pretty easy day too. they'll be starting at 8 and finishing about 2 (give or take depending on the person)

if you aren't hitting that i suspect your work isn't condensed enough, your staff aren't working fast enough, or your work is underpriced.

i found when i switched to a percentage of earnings model it changed everything  with my staff in terms of their attitude and their work ethic.

hope that helps

R

I know with you being based in Chester your prices can't be all that much more than mine, yet your day rate is really good.  I know people hitting £450 a day but thats down south so up north £350 a day i personally think is really good.  Maybe your work is more condensed, i'm not sure is the exact issue but if you can do it theres no reason why my worker cant eventually go from £250 a day to say £300-£350.

I just need to figure out what i am doing wrong.

From a legal point of view how do you deal with payroll and wages if all your staff are on a 30% pay on turnover?

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #66 on: February 27, 2022, 09:11:43 pm »
So Richard the way you work it with the %s you pay them roughly just over 100 a day.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #67 on: February 27, 2022, 09:13:58 pm »
And do you pay them regardless or just a % of what they do per day.

Mike Burd

Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #68 on: February 28, 2022, 07:30:02 am »
So how many hours a day do they work.?

Darran

Generally it's 8:30am-4:30pm but recently i wont lie there have been multiple days where my main worker has been finishing his £250 daily target by say 3:30pm etc and i have just been letting him go home early.  I always had an arrangement where you get the work done then you can go home early or you can stay out later and get more work done.

basic problem is your staff aren't doing enough work.

if you just pay them 30% of turnover this looks after itself to some extent

i think the absolute min they should do is £300 of work a day. many people can do considerably more. my min for staff is £350 a day.

thats a pretty easy day too. they'll be starting at 8 and finishing about 2 (give or take depending on the person)

if you aren't hitting that i suspect your work isn't condensed enough, your staff aren't working fast enough, or your work is underpriced.

i found when i switched to a percentage of earnings model it changed everything  with my staff in terms of their attitude and their work ethic.

hope that helps

R
The problem with that is that some work is easier & quicker than other. Being fair might be difficult.

Smudger

  • Posts: 13438
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #69 on: February 28, 2022, 11:17:14 am »
A lot to f variables here - if your 30% is above min wage p/h then it’s ok otherwise you may face problems - also what one man can do in 15 mins others take 25 or 30 mins so day rates will vary quite a lot all being independant makes it difficult to know where we are on the speed scale

Mine have a p/h band to hit - if they exceed this they get bonus a % of that day as long as there are no snags of course

Darran
Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #70 on: February 28, 2022, 12:06:05 pm »
Sounds like some are paying minimum wages a few posts above.

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2491
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #71 on: March 01, 2022, 11:33:29 am »
So how many hours a day do they work.?

Darran

Generally it's 8:30am-4:30pm but recently i wont lie there have been multiple days where my main worker has been finishing his £250 daily target by say 3:30pm etc and i have just been letting him go home early.  I always had an arrangement where you get the work done then you can go home early or you can stay out later and get more work done.

basic problem is your staff aren't doing enough work.

if you just pay them 30% of turnover this looks after itself to some extent

i think the absolute min they should do is £300 of work a day. many people can do considerably more. my min for staff is £350 a day.

thats a pretty easy day too. they'll be starting at 8 and finishing about 2 (give or take depending on the person)

if you aren't hitting that i suspect your work isn't condensed enough, your staff aren't working fast enough, or your work is underpriced.

i found when i switched to a percentage of earnings model it changed everything  with my staff in terms of their attitude and their work ethic.

hope that helps

R
The problem with that is that some work is easier & quicker than other. Being fair might be difficult.

its not tricky.

it evens out over a month. some rounds are harder, some are easier but we keep an eye on whos doing what,.
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2491
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #72 on: March 01, 2022, 11:38:49 am »
So how many hours a day do they work.?

Darran

Generally it's 8:30am-4:30pm but recently i wont lie there have been multiple days where my main worker has been finishing his £250 daily target by say 3:30pm etc and i have just been letting him go home early.  I always had an arrangement where you get the work done then you can go home early or you can stay out later and get more work done.

basic problem is your staff aren't doing enough work.

if you just pay them 30% of turnover this looks after itself to some extent

i think the absolute min they should do is £300 of work a day. many people can do considerably more. my min for staff is £350 a day.

thats a pretty easy day too. they'll be starting at 8 and finishing about 2 (give or take depending on the person)

if you aren't hitting that i suspect your work isn't condensed enough, your staff aren't working fast enough, or your work is underpriced.

i found when i switched to a percentage of earnings model it changed everything  with my staff in terms of their attitude and their work ethic.

hope that helps

R

I know with you being based in Chester your prices can't be all that much more than mine, yet your day rate is really good.  I know people hitting £450 a day but thats down south so up north £350 a day i personally think is really good.  Maybe your work is more condensed, i'm not sure is the exact issue but if you can do it theres no reason why my worker cant eventually go from £250 a day to say £300-£350.

I just need to figure out what i am doing wrong.

From a legal point of view how do you deal with payroll and wages if all your staff are on a 30% pay on turnover?

the problem is you don't have enough sales so your margins aren't good enough.

more sales means they need to work harder, or you need to get your work more condensed, or you need to raise your prices, OR 2 or 3 of those.

its not about area of the country. i'm in a business group of 5 window cleaners from all over the country (inc. rural wales, Chester, Nottingham..)  and we all hit broadly similar figures (although some can hit far higher numbers (because they're more established and work is far more condensed)

if you're margins aren't good enough you'll struggle to grow too as you need the cash to invest in growth.

payroll is simple. i just send the amount they've earned to my bookkeeper every month.

they're all FT employed and contracted.

when they start they earn min wage, until 30% of sales is higher than minimum wage. that usually takes 2-4 weeks for them to hit
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

Smudger

  • Posts: 13438
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #73 on: March 01, 2022, 12:57:52 pm »
Richard -

What rate do they get for holidays ?  - 30% of their average ( and what period ) or basic minimum wage ?

Darran
Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2491
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #74 on: March 01, 2022, 01:38:53 pm »
Richard -

What rate do they get for holidays ?  - 30% of their average ( and what period ) or basic minimum wage ?

Darran

There’s a legal requirement for AL. I think you have to pay the the average of the last 3 months pay. Something like that. My bookkeeper does it but the rate is set by employment law
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk

Mike Burd

Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #75 on: March 01, 2022, 01:43:51 pm »
Richard -

What rate do they get for holidays ?  - 30% of their average ( and what period ) or basic minimum wage ?

Darran

There’s a legal requirement for AL. I think you have to pay the the average of the last 3 months pay. Something like that. My bookkeeper does it but the rate is set by employment law
Good question from Darran.

Smudger

  • Posts: 13438
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #76 on: March 01, 2022, 03:16:52 pm »
 ;)
Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience

Smudger

  • Posts: 13438
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #77 on: March 01, 2022, 04:22:22 pm »
Are they zero hour contract ?

Darran
Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #78 on: March 01, 2022, 04:33:11 pm »
0 hours contract come on Darren that’s not employing people lol.

Richard iSparkle

  • Posts: 2491
Re: Margins when Paying Staff - Something isnt right....
« Reply #79 on: March 01, 2022, 05:18:05 pm »
Are they zero hour contract ?

Darran

No
iSparkle Window Cleaning

www.isparklewindowcleaning.uk