[jo5hm4n]

So a couple of things i want to mention as im looking for advice on what some of you on here who are full time employers are paying if you are willing to share that information of course as im a bit worried about my financials after reviewing the numbers.

So first of all i have always paid my workers £10 per hour plus regular bonuses when targets are met.  For the last few years this meant my workers were earning what i would call decent money.  A Full time worker is earning Gross of around £22,000-£24,000 per year.

Over the last few years though with wage increases it now appears that as of April 2022 i am barely paying minimum wage.  New minimum wage as of April 2022 is £9.50 per hour.  So really im just paying barely over this amount without bonuses incentives.

One of my main workers actually asked for a pay rise because he noticed that wages were going up and of course the increase of food and energy bills he was really concerned so felt he had to atleast ask for a wage increase.  He's my best worker so he has more than earned a wage increase all things considered. 

Still it concerns me that wages are going up year on year but as you will see below my turnover is stagnant per worker.   So i need to compete with that to make sure A) i am paying the legal minimum amount but more importantly B) i am paying more than the minimum amount because i want happy workers and for them to earn a fairly decent amount.


Right onto the topic at hand though what is your margins when it comes to employing.

I am concerned that my margins are not good.  I worked out that for every £1 that my workers earn me they receive 45p gross in wages.  So im operating at 45% in paying wages vs turnover.

I always tried to keep this figure around 30-35%, but with wage increase and factoring in full holiday pay, loss of earnings when they are on holidays and pensions etc, its now brought my number up to 45%.

So to put it into perspective if my worker goes out and earns me say £50,000 in a year then his wages or gross cost to me as an employee by comparison is around £22,500.

I think the real problem here is that our turnover is too low compared to the wages being paid.  I don't understand why but as the last 3-4 years have gone past our turnover per worker has not gone up at all.

So what are you turning over per year per worker, compared to the wages you pay?  Window cleaning only domestic please.

I've always tried to pay decent wages, but its rapidly hitting me that, unless i can increase my turnover per worker i can no longer do that or i need to make some serious changes in my business.

Just to be clear my main worker averages around £250 per working day up north.  For a while i thought this figure was good, but as the last 2-3 years have flown past im now thinking this is not good enough and i need to get with the times and work towards £300 per day per worker to keep afloat.

Appreciate any tips/advice or thoughts from those of you currently employing full time and who are in a fairly good position financially speaking with your business.

Cheers guys

[NWH]

I would say although you live in the North nearly everything still costs the same petrol diesel etc food,I would want-need someone doing more than what you are asking per day with wages vehicle expenses etc.
In an area or part of the country that you’re worker can earn you 150 on top of what he takes now would make things more comfortable all round with wages + you’re cut and some away for expenses.
Not saying you can’t make money employing I know you can but you need to be bringing in more than 250 a day from him,that would have maybe worked 15-20 years ago but things are way more expensive these days compared to 15-20 years ago as you well know.

[Smudger]

We noticed the same - you can easily fall back towards minimum wage - we gave everyone 11% rise from March 1 - to keep the gap - this unfortunately is what’s required

If your increasing your prices regularly you should still maintain that 33% wage cost

Darran

[Ggh]

Is that £250 a day before VAT?

[NWH]

That would not be enough to employ someone legitimately make a profit and keep a half decent vehicle on the road and make a profit down South,rents round this way gets you a rabbit hutch for a grand a month -council tax and bills on top of that.
Imo that’s not enough turnover to employ someone although I know you are doing just that.

[NWH]

250 a day wouldn’t be comfortable paying all wages holiday etc and something going wrong with a vehicle or the need to purchase equipment,you must be running it on a shoestring at times.

[SB Cleaning]

That would not be enough to employ someone legitimately make a profit and keep a half decent vehicle on the road and make a profit down South,rents round this way gets you a rabbit hutch for a grand a month -council tax and bills on top of that.
Imo that’s not enough turnover to employ someone although I know you are doing just that.

That's why a lot these days are going down the old "well he's self employed and works for me" route.

[NWH]

I’ve done what I call sensible figures time and again and factored in all the expenses that goes with employing someone properly with holiday- sickness pay equipment and decent van etc and a living wage,it’s not close to 250 a day more like 400 with the odd day returning 350-375 and some days them exceeding the 400.

[NWH]

If I leased a new van taxed and insured it and filled it with diesel every month that would cost me 6-700 a month before I’d put the kettle on.

[NWH]

There’s a few videos on YouTube with window cleaners so called employing people,when you listen to the figures mentioned in some of the videos it doesn’t stack up as being run legitimately to me more like cash in hand.

[KS Cleaning]

What are the reasons for your turnover being stagnant? Covid, losing work, not increasing prices, staff slacking off?    When you say £250 per man is that 1 man per van? Because there’s a big difference 2 men in one van bringing in £500 compared to two vans bringing in a total of £500.
I would expect an employee to be able to do an absolute minimum of £50 per hour, if this isn’t being achieved is it down to poor work rate, poor efficiency or could it be poorly priced work?
The truth is there are so many variables on how the figures might not be working for you, it’s down to you to identify where things aren’t right and then to implement a course of action to put it right.

[NWH]

This is why it’s so difficult to find the right person a competent cleaner with decent work should be able to clean 350-400 every day he’s out easily,if it’s very good work very easily.
If I had someone that was returning 250 a day he would either be very lazy or my work would priced incredibly badly,I’ve no idea what work you have and how you price but like I say your expenses are the same as mine on the whole I don’t know how anyone can run a profitable business on that figure.
It’s not even like you know from the get go you can work every single day with the weather,there must be lots  of people telling porkys about the way they employ because doing it properly that figure ain’t enough.

[NWH]

Yeah but I’m sure you would still have to pay what 6-800 rent in a half decent place so the employee these days would still need to earn a half decent wage,250 return would mean no unexpected bills no real bonus incentives and things not happening like they are at them moment with the massive increases in domestic bills.
With the above all working out still very little profit not even worth considering going down the employment route,simply wouldn’t be worth it for all the troubles that could come with it employing on that basis could only be considered imo on a cash in hand basis 3-4 days a week which long term never works out for both parties.

[Mark Dee]

From what you have said and the limited information available the best advice I can give is to revisit your numbers, I don’t think its just a cost of labour issue, other costs have slowly increased in percentage terms over time and are eating away at your nett margin.

I would want to know my average cost per customer visit, I think you may be surprised at what that number may be. Its an expensive exercise just to turn the lights on every week,

Your goal is to keep various types of expenses within acceptable percentage ranges eg wages 30-35% of total nett VAT revenue Fuel cost at 10-15% off total nett VAT revenue etc etc.


I wish you well.

[Stoots]

As you know i dont currently employ but have at various points.


The minimum wage has shot up it was only around 8 quid an hour in 2018/2019! back then 250 a day was a good target (30/35% staff costs to turnover ratio)

250 in a day isnt a lot of work anymore, even where i am charging around 12 quid an average house i can rattle that off by 1pm most days. I know employees will never work that hard but i think £300 should be an achievable target by someone working an 8 hour day without killing themselves.

They need to be doing 300 a day mate with the amount they are costing you.

[NWH]

If you employ properly on any given day they can work a full or  what you’d call a  day it still need to be more than 300,as mentioned costs are no different Gardiner’s and Shell charge you the same as me for poles and diesel.
Forget what you’re paying him that can be sorted when you get the daily-weekly figure higher but it needs to be higher you have no wiggle room for unexpected expenditure,if he was cleaning 400s worth of work a day I would want 250 going back in to the business after I’d paid him if at the end of the week and month he’d hit his numbers I would then give him a bonus %.
You also need to be honest with the numbers and tell them what they need to hit in order for them to earn more rather than them going out working blind so to speak,in window cleaning if they don’t have that incentive they will be returning numbers of 250 all over the country poor work or good work.
Even if you paid them 20 notes an hour they’d slow up after a while money is the kick up the A**e most people need.

[Mike Burd]

I seem to be increasing pay every other year. I set a value every day for workers I expect and before a pay rise, I increase prices and then increase pay with an increase in the value I expect.

[Ggh]

It’s not just about how much they generate is it though. How they treat the vehicles and equipment, how they interact with clients, follow rams, punctuality, attitoood etc.

[NWH]

If they don’t generate enough money for you and the business it’s pointless having them you employ to make money and make life easier surely,having someone like you’re example is expected if you are to keep them you should try and do you’re best at the start to make sure the person at least seems like they’ve got the right attitude for you to give them a trial.
However people treat employees they are using them as a tool to make money,with this job it’s difficult to find the right person it can be boring if it’s you’re business although I don’t find this someone working for a wage probably would do,you have to pay them more than they might get doing another manual job nearly all the time you hear people talking about work it’s down to money.

[DJW]

Do you employ many NWH?