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dazmond

  • Posts: 23966
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2021, 07:58:34 pm »
I'm using a taper tec xtreme brush at the moment for most work...works ok on leaded too....

There is absolutely no need for anything heavier for most of my regular work at all....
price higher/work harder!

֍Winp®oClean֍

  • Posts: 1687
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2021, 08:20:30 pm »
Here's the pictures. I've placed it next to a standard Xtreme (worn) for perspective. It wasn't difficult to trim the brush with scissors but does require patience. For me, it's now a very usable brush, still retains it's 'softness' and splay and requires very little effort. I like the stock, it's lovely and slim with no brutal edges and even with the reduced bristle length, it still doesn't abuse the window frames like the Xtremes do. It's considerably more effective and efficient over the Xtreme in return for a little weight and it 'should' last considerably longer too. In standard form, other than possibly gutter cleaning,  I just can't understand how it could seriously be considered as a window cleaning brush. It may have the odd specific use but in general terms, it's a misfit IMO.
And again, just my opinion.
Comfortably Numb!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23966
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #62 on: November 18, 2021, 10:54:25 pm »
Winpro I think you need a different hobby other than fannying about with brushes.... ;D

All Gardiner brushes are usable as they are...no need to start cutting bristles down!
price higher/work harder!

֍Winp®oClean֍

  • Posts: 1687
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #63 on: November 18, 2021, 11:46:01 pm »
Winpro I think you need a different hobby other than fannying about with brushes.... ;D

All Gardiner brushes are usable as they are...no need to start cutting bristles down!

Depends what you consider usable. You could use it yes, but it can very easily be made Ten times better. You should have the option not to have to keep buying jets that you don't need- just like you do with brush sockets. Gardiners, IMO are going backwards with their brushes, you've just got used to using poor brushes. I can show you an Xtreme that was made probably 7/8 years ago and it knocks spots off the very latest versions! They also lasted considerably longer too. While ever you accept this uncritically, you'll continue to receive it. The Ultimate is the only current brush that could genuinely be classed as a every day brush. The current Xtremes are terrible and the supremes unnecessarily so- as shown above. I've always been a fan of Gardiners from day one, the new 'water through' neck is genius for uni-valve users but..... I'm perplexed at their brush development/direction and I'm not alone.
Comfortably Numb!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23966
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #64 on: November 19, 2021, 02:51:18 pm »
What is wrong with the xtreme brushes then mate?
I virtually use them all the time,currently I'm using taper tec standard size xtreme brushes....they are fine for regular work but for a very dirty first clean I'd use a supreme or ultimate brush
price higher/work harder!

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #65 on: November 19, 2021, 04:23:09 pm »
I only use extreme brushes these days I would say a slightly heavier brush would be better above 3 floors as it would give better pressure on the glass.

robbo333

  • Posts: 2419
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #66 on: November 19, 2021, 05:17:04 pm »
I use the Xtreme sill brush, great brush.  I also didn't like the orange bristles, which obscured my view, so I pulled them out. On my new, brush i've left them on and I have to say it is far more efficient with them left on.

The old Supreme with the black inner bristles is a lovely brush, the best brush for leaded by far and great for fsg cleans. The latest one, with the white inner bristles, is lighter, but feels more like a damp cloth and doesn't glide over square lead quite so smoothly.

I've adapted brushes too. I cut the ends of an old ultimate to about 5mm before the pencil jets. Then I trimmed the bristles to about 6mm long . It's like a giant tooth brush and is brilliant for anything 'stubborn'!

I can clean efficiently, quickly, and to a good standard, with a lightweight sill brush. Job done for me.


"Thank you for calling: if you have a 1st floor flat, mid terraced house, lots of dogs, no parking, no side access, or no sense of humour, please press hold!
For all other enquiries, please press1"

Splash & dash

  • Posts: 4364
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #67 on: November 19, 2021, 05:19:48 pm »
I only use extreme brushes these days I would say a slightly heavier brush would be better above 3 floors as it would give better pressure on the glass.



I find hot water kills the extream brush in less than 3 weeks ?? How do you manage with them ???

֍Winp®oClean֍

  • Posts: 1687
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #68 on: November 19, 2021, 05:55:41 pm »
Firstly, it's a struggle to get into corners with them and if you do manage, then they're not very effective at removing spiders nests etc.. The over extended stock makes this even worse, I have a complex of barn conversions with approx 2" deep frames and the Xtreme can't even get into these corners at all, the stock prevents it happening.
Then, you have jet placement. On the sill version it's correct but the none sill, for whatever reason, the jets are too close to the center. A minor fault you might think but it shouldn't be happening at this cost and from such a experienced company IMO.
Then you have the wear rate. This I suppose is the trade off for weight but these things literally wear out in weeks. My medium tapertec was past it's sell by date after 3/4 weeks. It started off ok but the bristles began to bend inwards, rather than the usual outwards, which renders it useless even quicker than normal as it exacerbates the inability to get into corners even more.
They also really bang into the frames, which isn't good. The sill version IMO is just a joke, it completely ruins the brush and seriously hinders your view of the rest of the brush. Two skinny rows of skinny bristles aren't really going to clean a sill effectively anyway, you're just kidding yourself ;D But unfortunately, this seems to be where the focus is being directed- a swivel is far more effective and you can use a normal, better brush to boot.
Then there's the jet capsules, great in theory but how many people really change jets in the same brush? I don't and I don't know of anyone else personally who does. most people tend to pick one favorite, either fans or pencil. In order to accommodate the capsules far more bristles have to be removed- something that an Xtreme can little afford, if at all.  You look through the brush in use to a light background like a skylight and you'll see considerable gaps where there's barely anything touching the glass. This makes the brush less efficient, it's lighter but less efficient. It's less efficient with harder cleaning too, like bird poo etc. and even worse on cobwebs that have hit the glass (take a closer, second look and you'll see)- sometimes taking some considerable time and effort to move on. All this begins to eat into the benefits of it's lighter weight and the balance, or trade off becomes narrower. Add to that, the fact that you have to buy a new set for every brush purchase so end up with a van full of them that you'll never use.
This might sound like a real moan, and you'd have a point but..... I think a lot of these issues could be put right or shouldn't have happened to begin with as the tooling will have to be paid for so could be stuck with them for some time. ;D
The current form of Xtreme isn't IMO as good as the early versions that had a stock more akin to the supreme and had thicker bristle clumps. There have been glimmers of hope like the natural/boars? hair inner Xtreme and the tapertec but the latter faltered too soon. It's kind of frustrating because I think a far better Xtreme could be made that would be more universally suitable, usable and have a longer 'usable' service life- instead the lure of the weight saving over the other options seems to compel us to accept what's on offer. You just can't beat a good, proper brush that has most of the desired qualities instead of heaps of brushes that do one or two things effectively and miss out on the rest.
Comfortably Numb!

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2021, 06:04:19 pm »
I only use extreme brushes these days I would say a slightly heavier brush would be better above 3 floors as it would give better pressure on the glass.



I find hot water kills the extream brush in less than 3 weeks ?? How do you manage with them ???

The flocked extreme I find copes very well with hot water as does the extreme medium with the row of orange bristles,like I said before Splash I alternate them if you use any brush day after day job after job with hot water you’ll kill em quicker than you will with cold,saying that the 2 I mention do stand up well to hot water.
The stiff extreme gets mullered a lot quicker with hot water although great when new it doesn’t hold its shape long enough.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2021, 06:06:47 pm »
The stiff extreme is the best for getting spiders nests out of the corners,that’s the only time I’m keen to put that on the pole if I can see those dreaded yellow round balls under a sash or in the corners of multiple windows.

DJW

  • Posts: 1008
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #71 on: November 19, 2021, 06:18:30 pm »
Why do you alternate them? Do they miraculously repair themselves overnight?


dazmond

  • Posts: 23966
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #72 on: November 19, 2021, 06:27:22 pm »
Surely you don't throw a brush away after 3 weeks just cos it's gone out of shape!

The answer is (ironically)boiling hot water...just pour it over the bristles and leave it in a bowl for 5 mins,they come out brand new again...

I use a supreme brush on a 10in carbon gooseneck for sash windows with deep ledges,works a treat on spider eggs in the corner of frames....👍
price higher/work harder!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23966
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #73 on: November 19, 2021, 06:35:23 pm »
Firstly, it's a struggle to get into corners with them and if you do manage, then they're not very effective at removing spiders nests etc.. The over extended stock makes this even worse, I have a complex of barn conversions with approx 2" deep frames and the Xtreme can't even get into these corners at all, the stock prevents it happening.
Then, you have jet placement. On the sill version it's correct but the none sill, for whatever reason, the jets are too close to the center. A minor fault you might think but it shouldn't be happening at this cost and from such a experienced company IMO.
Then you have the wear rate. This I suppose is the trade off for weight but these things literally wear out in weeks. My medium tapertec was past it's sell by date after 3/4 weeks. It started off ok but the bristles began to bend inwards, rather than the usual outwards, which renders it useless even quicker than normal as it exacerbates the inability to get into corners even more.
They also really bang into the frames, which isn't good. The sill version IMO is just a joke, it completely ruins the brush and seriously hinders your view of the rest of the brush. Two skinny rows of skinny bristles aren't really going to clean a sill effectively anyway, you're just kidding yourself ;D But unfortunately, this seems to be where the focus is being directed- a swivel is far more effective and you can use a normal, better brush to boot.
Then there's the jet capsules, great in theory but how many people really change jets in the same brush? I don't and I don't know of anyone else personally who does. most people tend to pick one favorite, either fans or pencil. In order to accommodate the capsules far more bristles have to be removed- something that an Xtreme can little afford, if at all.  You look through the brush in use to a light background like a skylight and you'll see considerable gaps where there's barely anything touching the glass. This makes the brush less efficient, it's lighter but less efficient. It's less efficient with harder cleaning too, like bird poo etc. and even worse on cobwebs that have hit the glass (take a closer, second look and you'll see)- sometimes taking some considerable time and effort to move on. All this begins to eat into the benefits of it's lighter weight and the balance, or trade off becomes narrower. Add to that, the fact that you have to buy a new set for every brush purchase so end up with a van full of them that you'll never use.
This might sound like a real moan, and you'd have a point but..... I think a lot of these issues could be put right or shouldn't have happened to begin with as the tooling will have to be paid for so could be stuck with them for some time. ;D
The current form of Xtreme isn't IMO as good as the early versions that had a stock more akin to the supreme and had thicker bristle clumps. There have been glimmers of hope like the natural/boars? hair inner Xtreme and the tapertec but the latter faltered too soon. It's kind of frustrating because I think a far better Xtreme could be made that would be more universally suitable, usable and have a longer 'usable' service life- instead the lure of the weight saving over the other options seems to compel us to accept what's on offer. You just can't beat a good, proper brush that has most of the desired qualities instead of heaps of brushes that do one or two things effectively and miss out on the rest.

Jet placement doesn't bother me one bit....I don't even notice

Spider eggs don't either as the supreme is excellent for flicking them out and the extremes will even if it takes a bit longer...

Stock banging on frames...again not a problem unless your rushing....

My stiff supreme is 10 months old and will last at least another 10 months....

Xtreme brushes last around 3 or 4 months....I can live with that.... ;D
price higher/work harder!

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #74 on: November 19, 2021, 07:03:42 pm »
Why do you alternate them? Do they miraculously repair themselves overnight?

If you don’t alternate them you ruin them beyond repair if you just leave it on you bend the bristles so much so they just stay flat,I’ll put one on for the day and then change it the following morning.

֍Winp®oClean֍

  • Posts: 1687
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #75 on: November 19, 2021, 07:07:57 pm »
Why do you alternate them? Do they miraculously repair themselves overnight?

If you don’t alternate them you ruin them beyond repair if you just leave it on you bend the bristles so much so they just stay flat,I’ll put one on for the day and then change it the following morning.

Kind of proves my point!😁
Comfortably Numb!

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #76 on: November 19, 2021, 07:08:39 pm »
Your technique has a lot to do with how long a brush lasts no end.

֍Winp®oClean֍

  • Posts: 1687
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #77 on: November 19, 2021, 07:14:49 pm »
Your technique has a lot to do with how long a brush lasts no end.

It shouldn't have to though. Again, you are having to 'manage' a brush!
Comfortably Numb!

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #78 on: November 19, 2021, 07:49:42 pm »
Yeah I know what your saying they don’t last hence why I have to alternate or you just end up with a useless brush in no time,I see some people really squashing the brush in to the sides of the window on regular cleans and that’s one of the main reasons they don’t last 5 minutes.
I’m not saying you are wrong your right they should last longer I’m just giving my example of how I make them last a bit longer I have about 8-10 different brushes in the van and rotate them when I feel I’ve hammered 1 on a job.

Splash & dash

  • Posts: 4364
Re: Supreme brushes?
« Reply #79 on: November 19, 2021, 09:26:52 pm »
Surely you don't throw a brush away after 3 weeks just cos it's gone out of shape!

The answer is (ironically)boiling hot water...just pour it over the bristles and leave it in a bowl for 5 mins,they come out brand new again...

I use a supreme brush on a 10in carbon gooseneck for sash windows with deep ledges,works a treat on spider eggs in the corner of frames....👍



Tried that and yes it will straighten them to a degree but they go out of shape again after a couple of hours use .