[colin bird]

please stay with me on this post as it may sound a bit drawn out.
i had a 65 plates transit custom with a purefreedom 500l van mounted 4040 ro system,i sold it to my mate a year ago,i  then purchased a 20 plate custom and had a purefreedom 500l van mounted 4040 ro system fitted.
my mate recently repaced his 4040 ro membrane with a new one in march 21,i replaced my 4040 membrane in april 2021,in the area we live the membranes have only everlasted a year,his tds and my tds is between 270 and 220 (my membranes have only everlasted a year for 13 years  and always purchsed from puefreedom)
hes does the same amount of work to me on a daily basis,both of us dont have a problem replacing our ro each year,i know a lot of people will say thats not long enough for an ro to last but we dont have a problem with that.
the membranes we fit are hf4 as recommended by purefreedom we have a tap pressure of 70 psi not boosted.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM !!!!!
the 4040 ros purchased from purefreedom used to come with a white plastic outer cover,the ones we have both recently replaced both have what looks like a cling film outer( but its not cling film) also purchased from purefreedom
we have both noticed that our tanks take considerably longer to fill, my mate advises that he is also producing more waste water than before with the previous ro. ,my waste seems to be about the same but filling time is longer.

any help and advice would be much appreciated and thanks for staying with it,i think ive covered everything.
thanks again colin

[Simon Trapani]

Are you sure it’s not actually some sort of clingfilm packaging still on it?

And I know you didn’t ask but a water softener would probably increase the life of your membrane, but that’s another topic.

[colin bird]

Are you sure it’s not actually some sort of clingfilm packaging still on it?

And I know you didn’t ask but a water softener would probably increase the life of your membrane, but that’s another topic.

Hi Simon the  finish on the exterior of the membrane looks like cling film but it's not cling film buts it's actually part of the membrane,
The reason I said the finish looks like cling film is that's the only way I can describe what it looks like
Many of the hanks

[Smudger]

some makes come with a white upvc finish others a clear finish that does look like clingfilm

I would say if your only getting a year out of an RO (assuming you make 500 ltr a day then you need to up the pressure of the water and possibly the flow into the RO unit

Another factor is your carbon pre filters- size, type and replacement intervals

pure freedom or the manufacturer may have changed the spec

Darran

[colin bird]

some makes come with a white upvc finish others a clear finish that does look like clingfilm

I would say if your only getting a year out of an RO (assuming you make 500 ltr a day then you need to up the pressure of the water and possibly the flow into the RO unit

Another factor is your carbon pre filters- size, type and replacement intervals

pure freedom or the manufacturer may have changed the spec

Darran
[/quote

Hi Darren,  filters are 20 inch one sediment one charcoal both 5 microns I've always changed then every three months ,with resin as that is when my tds starts to rise ,I just don't understand why it's taking longer to fill,as you said above the ro spec must have changed, so it is taking longer to make pure,so I assume the ro must be more dense restricting water getting through it,so therefore making more waste water.
Regarding a booster pump I hear where your coming from

[Spruce]

Purefreedom drill a hole in the gate valve to allow water to waste when you completely close the valve. Over time the water passing through that drilled orifice will become bigger which then messes with your pure to waste ratio.

I would replace the gate valve with a std one purchased from a plumbing supplier. This will give you fine control over your waste to pure ratio. You will have to set up your r/o to produce the purest water and then mark that position on the gate valve handle. Then ensure you never completely close the waste gate valve when producing water. 

You may have 70psi water pressure but you also need to have a good supply of water to the r/o.  I have found that opening the waste gate valve on my 4040 to 3 waste to 1 pure reduces the water pressure on the membrane by around 10psi and my r/o is connected directly to the house mains. Running water to the van using a hose pipe can restrict water flow.

We have 50psi water pressure at home. PF advised that an HF4 would work just as well as an HF5 at our water pressure. When the specs showed that an HF4 performs at its best at 100psi and an HF5 performs at its best at 80psi, I went for the HF5.

Now my question. Is PF selling you a Axeon HF4 membrane or are they supplying another make as an HF4?  I'm not saying they are, but they did sell another brand of resin a few years back as Tulsion. Window Cleaning Warehouse sell Axeon membranes. If you order one you could get another brand, ie a Spectrum. They stated this on the website page last time I looked. You pay the same price as an Axeon for the Spectrum one - other suppliers charge less for a Spectrum one, so my opinion is that WCW will supply you a Spectrum one every time.

[Pete Thompson]

Window Cleaning Warehouse sell Axeon membranes. If you order one you could get another brand, ie a Spectrum. They stated this on the website page last time I looked. You pay the same price as an Axeon for the Spectrum one - other suppliers charge less for a Spectrum one, so my opinion is that WCW will supply you a Spectrum one every time.

I wondered about this. I ordered 2 Axeon membranes from window cleaning warehouse, and they supplied……

2 Axeon membranes.

[Spruce]

Window Cleaning Warehouse sell Axeon membranes. If you order one you could get another brand, ie a Spectrum. They stated this on the website page last time I looked. You pay the same price as an Axeon for the Spectrum one - other suppliers charge less for a Spectrum one, so my opinion is that WCW will supply you a Spectrum one every time.

I wondered about this. I ordered 2 Axeon membranes from window cleaning warehouse, and they supplied……

2 Axeon membranes.

That is good to know. The trouble with me is that the older I get the more cynical I've become. Apologies.

[Smudger]

"Purefreedom drill a hole in the gate valve to allow water to waste when you completely close the valve. Over time the water passing through that drilled orifice will become bigger which then messes with your pure to waste ratio." - spot on Spruce

Mines an old PF system - when I checked the gate valve a couple of years back the hole was completely out of shape
I brought new gate vales and drilled a new hole - starting at 1.5mm to see how it effected flow and TDS

Darran

[Spruce]

"Purefreedom drill a hole in the gate valve to allow water to waste when you completely close the valve. Over time the water passing through that drilled orifice will become bigger which then messes with your pure to waste ratio." - spot on Spruce

Mines an old PF system - when I checked the gate valve a couple of years back the hole was completely out of shape
I brought new gate vales and drilled a new hole - starting at 1.5mm to see how it effected flow and TDS

Darran

If the truth be told I also drilled a hole in my gate valve of 1mm. I did that because there was my son and son in law also using the system and I was looking to protect my membrane from inquisitive fingers.
To achieve my r/o's 'sweet spot' I purchased an online TDs metre. I still have my gate valve partially open when producing water but its more closed than when I first started off 8 years ago. The marks I first made are way off.  It won't be long before I will replace that gate valve with a new one. I will probably do it when I replace the membrane one of these days.

[colin bird]

Purefreedom drill a hole in the gate valve to allow water to waste when you completely close the valve. Over time the water passing through that drilled orifice will become bigger which then messes with your pure to waste ratio.

I would replace the gate valve with a std one purchased from a plumbing supplier. This will give you fine control over your waste to pure ratio. You will have to set up your r/o to produce the purest water and then mark that position on the gate valve handle. Then ensure you never completely close the waste gate valve when producing water. 

You may have 70psi water pressure but you also need to have a good supply of water to the r/o.  I have found that opening the waste gate valve on my 4040 to 3 waste to 1 pure reduces the water pressure on the membrane by around 10psi and my r/o is connected directly to the house mains. Running water to the van using a hose pipe can restrict water flow.

We have 50psi water pressure at home. PF advised that an HF4 would work just as well as an HF5 at our water pressure. When the specs showed that an HF4 performs at its best at 100psi and an HF5 performs at its best at 80psi, I went for the HF5.

Now my question. Is PF selling you a Axeon HF4 membrane or are they supplying another make as an HF4?  I'm not saying they are, but they did sell another brand of resin a few years back as Tulsion. Window Cleaning Warehouse sell Axeon membranes. If you order one you could get another brand, ie a Spectrum. They stated this on the website page last time I looked. You pay the same price as an Axeon for the Spectrum one - other suppliers charge less for a Spectrum one, so my opinion is that WCW will supply you a Spectrum one every time.

Many thanks for that reply,I it is very informative and makes a lot of sense thanks again

[colin bird]

"Purefreedom drill a hole in the gate valve to allow water to waste when you completely close the valve. Over time the water passing through that drilled orifice will become bigger which then messes with your pure to waste ratio." - spot on Spruce

Mines an old PF system - when I checked the gate valve a couple of years back the hole was completely out of shape
I brought new gate vales and drilled a new hole - starting at 1.5mm to see how it effected flow and TDS

Darran
[/quotte

This makes complete sense as my mates system is making more waste
Than it used do,his system is six years old,I will advise him to change the gate valve

[Spruce]

"Purefreedom drill a hole in the gate valve to allow water to waste when you completely close the valve. Over time the water passing through that drilled orifice will become bigger which then messes with your pure to waste ratio." - spot on Spruce

Mines an old PF system - when I checked the gate valve a couple of years back the hole was completely out of shape
I brought new gate vales and drilled a new hole - starting at 1.5mm to see how it effected flow and TDS

Darran
[/quotte

This makes complete sense as my mates system is making more waste
Than it used do,his system is six years old,I will advise him to change the gate valve

I would certainly do this to begin with. These red handled valves aren't expensive. In time, the gate valve's paddle will wear with water erosion even if you don't drill a small hole in it.

One of the local windies had a PF 4040 filling his IBC tank. In those days he had quite a bit of water going to waste with the gate valve shut. I never measured it, but I had a feeling they weren't roughly the same - my current 4040 works best at around 55% waste to 45% pure on the same water supply. I reckon his was around 3 to 1 at a guess.