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NBwcs

  • Posts: 881
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2021, 08:05:31 pm »
"The world has changed drastically over 12 months"

No more so in Cornwall than any other part of the UK where most of the other suppliers i buy from  still give free delivery over a certain amount, still stock the same amount gear and answer the phone when i ring them, not get back to me when its convenient for them and quite probably inconvenient for me. I still rate Gardiners highly and will no  doubt continue to buy from them but nevertheless, their customer service isnt as good as it used to be for these reasons. Back in 2004 when wfp was really taking off, Ionics ruled the roost and along came Gardiners and with a strategy of Stocking quality goods at reasonable prices and offering what i would consider to be the best customer service i have encountered in our industry and imo blew Ionics out of the water. The strategy seems to be changing which is a shame, it worked.  Still a great company though.

jim bean

  • Posts: 194
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2021, 09:14:13 pm »
I’ve just recently started using gardiners and from my experience they reply to any queries or anything rapidly and very willing to help.
They’re poles are the best without a doubt, cost wise they’re slightly dearer but the quality reflects that. Brushes again IMO are the best not sure about the lifespan stated as mine have well surpassed that
6.99 for delivery i assume is based on a pole size package as that being their forte.
I wouldn’t ever buy hose clips or similar from a window cleaning company as they charge the earth

Col

  • Posts: 83
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2021, 09:59:06 pm »
It's not the delivery charge that bugs me about Gardiner's it's their couriers Fed Ex.
I was expecting a pole delivery today before 6 pm.
No sign of it and the tracking is now saying before end of the day 😉
Wife has been in all day so have not missed them.
I have had problems with them before and have had to drive to the back of beyond to pick up deliveries from their depot.
I have had a good few deliveries from DPD over the last year and they have been spot on including a delivery window of an hour or so.

Ched

  • Posts: 441
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2021, 10:11:58 pm »
It's not the delivery charge that bugs me about Gardiner's it's their couriers Fed Ex.
I believe Gardiners use FedEx as they are the only ones that will deliver the poles due to the length!

֍Winp®oClean֍

  • Posts: 1687
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2021, 10:13:13 pm »
It's not the delivery charge that bugs me about Gardiner's it's their couriers Fed Ex.
I was expecting a pole delivery today before 6 pm.
No sign of it and the tracking is now saying before end of the day 😉
Wife has been in all day so have not missed them.
I have had problems with them before and have had to drive to the back of beyond to pick up deliveries from their depot.
I have had a good few deliveries from DPD over the last year and they have been spot on including a delivery window of an hour or so.

DPD are fantastic. Download the app and you can virtually follow your package right to your door in real time.
Comfortably Numb!

Ste M

  • Posts: 1825
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2021, 11:11:45 pm »
Ive said my piece on this earlier and I see a fair few agree with the way gardeners used to run. What gets me is we all know Alex comes on here, wouldn't it be nice if he replied to it and explained the reasons behind the charge?

Smudger

  • Posts: 13438
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2021, 11:19:56 pm »
Being devils advocate - do you explain your charges to customers.?

Postage is never free - stop to consider that the brush you want to buy might be £5 dearer than it currently is if there was 'free' postage - buy 2 or more brushes and your better off..

Darran
Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7742
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2021, 08:05:54 am »
Ive said my piece on this earlier and I see a fair few agree with the way gardeners used to run. What gets me is we all know Alex comes on here, wouldn't it be nice if he replied to it and explained the reasons behind the charge?

Hi Ste M

I have purposefully not commented as I was not asked for my comment by the original poster  ;)

The original poster asked for 'your thoughts' not 'Gardiner Pole Systems thoughts'  :)

I was happy to let those that wanted to complain, complain - fair enough. Not my job to tell my customers to stop complaining.

I was also interested in the various comments where customers have discussed the business reasons behind this decision - some great insights have been shown.

I have very good and clear reasons both financial and psychological for this 'price rise' - I can share this with you all if specifically wanted. However I would only do so if specifically asked and it would not be an attempt to stop our customers complaining about it.


dazmond

  • Posts: 23966
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2021, 08:07:05 am »
I've never had a problem with FedEx....every delivery from Gardiners have been spot on in all the years I've bought stuff off them...

In fact I ordered some new gym gear from under armour the other day but autofill on my phone put the wrong postcode....fedex phoned me on day of delivery to query it before they sent their drivers out at 7am....I've always found their staff friendly and professional...great delivery company IMO...
price higher/work harder!

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25385
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2021, 08:19:34 am »
Ive said my piece on this earlier and I see a fair few agree with the way gardeners used to run. What gets me is we all know Alex comes on here, wouldn't it be nice if he replied to it and explained the reasons behind the charge?

Hi Ste M

I have purposefully not commented as I was not asked for my comment by the original poster  ;)

The original poster asked for 'your thoughts' not 'Gardiner Pole Systems thoughts'  :)

I was happy to let those that wanted to complain, complain - fair enough. Not my job to tell my customers to stop complaining.

I was also interested in the various comments where customers have discussed the business reasons behind this decision - some great insights have been shown.

I have very good and clear reasons both financial and psychological for this prices rise - I can share this with you all if specifically wanted. However I would only do so if specifically asked and it would not be an attempt to stop customer complaining about it.

I would appreciate hearing your reasons, Alex.
It's a game of three halves!

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7742
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2021, 09:45:12 am »
I would appreciate hearing your reasons, Alex.

First of all I want to say that I think we are very fortunate to be in an industry where we have, for the main part, been able to continue working and earning a living despite the Covid Pandemic restrictions. I am grateful that I was not in the hospitality or travel sector at this time.

My explanation below is in no way trying to complain or moan about the cost or challenges of doing business – I am very fortunate to have a robust business that has been steadily growing despite the world situation around us. Whilst we are still a small family business we do employ nearly 40 staff and having a healthy business does mean that this responsibility is not more burdensome than it needs to be.

Removal of Free Postage on orders over £60 – yes this is a price rise – pure and simple.

We have not always provided free postage, but introduced it as a sales promotion many years ago in order to ‘encourage’ customers to buy more goods from us to increase order size and spend more money with us – and this has always worked very well to gently push up the size of orders from our customers. Despite this, nearly 40% of our customer orders have paid for postage as they were under the free limit – such orders have not been affected.

Why remove this now? There are several reasons that have coalesced into this change.

1.   The price of doing business in the Covid and Post Brexit economy. The rise in prices have been relentless the last 15 months or so. All of our raw materials have increased in price dramatically – sometimes up to 3 price rises in one calendar year. The cost of moving/storing goods has been ridiculous. The cost of shipping a 20ft container has grown from about £1500 (just freight cost, not import and port handling) to about £5000 per container. Even the humble cardboard box has risen in price dramatically and we have faced serious national shortages of packaging materials leading to price spikes. Due to the continued growth within our industry sector, we have had to manage such growth during very challenging times – this has all been costly as every Covid precaution or post-Brexit ‘work around’ has cost us time and money and at a time when many of our staff could still not come into work.

2.   We have started to move into a time period where generally consumers are interested in cutting down waste and only purchasing what they need. With this in mind, some time ago we started charging a small amount for hose packs and connectors on our poles so that these would only be bought when wanted – this was also a price rise which helped our bottom line, but it did have the effect of reducing the purchasing of a component that may not have actually been needed. It also helped reduce the work load fractionally at a time when we were busier than ideal. There is an ethical issue with using promotions that encourage consumers to purchase more goods than they need and the removal of this ‘free shipping’ promotion means there is no pressure to buy just an ‘extra widget’ to hit an order value.

3.   We have a very dynamic and growing customer base that has considerably increased in order volume in the last twelve months– as a business this is always encouraging. However, the rate of customer order increase has been so dramatic that we had to look at ways of slowing such growth down. We have thought about closing our books to new customers temporarily but this would bring it’s own logistical problems. For the wholesale side in March 2020 we put a freeze in place around the world where we would not appoint any new Distributors either in the UK or Internationally – this freeze will remain in place for the rest of 2021 and probably into 2022. On the retail side we looked at many ways of trying to discourage new customers and reduce the order volume from existing customers – just as in a window cleaning business there is a limit to how many windows can be cleaned with finite resources and in 2020 we reached and exceeded such limits.  We aim to ‘work to live, not live to work’. One way of reducing customer orders is to reduce the range of goods supplied and we have been working on this for about 3 years now. However more was needed as we continued to grow so we chose to make the very noticeable method of rising prices by doing away with free shipping. We could have gently increased product prices that would easily have covered this and would probably have not even been noticed, but instead we wanted this very small price rise to be fully noticed, thought about and to have a larger psychological effect than its actual cost is.
Put bluntly we wanted to ‘lose’ some of our customers and their orders and for those who object to this small price rise strongly enough this will hopefully have such an effect and they will shop elsewhere – fortunately, there is plenty of choice in the market today and many other pole suppliers who can be bought from. 

Can I take this opportunity to thank all our customers who have been very understanding during this difficult time – we appreciate their support very much and we will continue to do the best we can to keep supplying our customers with the best product possible in the coming months ahead.

I hope that this has helped clarify why such a decision was made 😊

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 25385
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2021, 12:13:28 pm »
Thank you for the comprehensive and detailed reply, Alex.

May I ask something based on your response?

You wrote in section 3

"3.   We have a very dynamic and growing customer base that has considerably increased in order volume in the last twelve months– as a business this is always encouraging. However, the rate of customer order increase has been so dramatic that we had to look at ways of slowing such growth down."

Why do you think there has been such an increase these last twelve months?  What part has Covid played to foment this increase?

It's a game of three halves!

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7742
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2021, 12:47:11 pm »
Thank you for the comprehensive and detailed reply, Alex.

May I ask something based on your response?

You wrote in section 3

"3.   We have a very dynamic and growing customer base that has considerably increased in order volume in the last twelve months– as a business this is always encouraging. However, the rate of customer order increase has been so dramatic that we had to look at ways of slowing such growth down."

Why do you think there has been such an increase these last twelve months?  What part has Covid played to foment this increase?

Hi AuRavelling79

I think for our business, the rate of new customers is not particularly affected by Covid itself. We were experiencing a similar growth rate in new customers during 2019  purely due to our business and products offered within the market. The last couple of years we have averaged about 50 new customers per week and this has continued despite Covid.

What Covid has done is made it more challenging to manage such sustained growth.

Tristan76

  • Posts: 6
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2021, 01:52:06 pm »
Hi Alex, I just wanted to say thanks very much for your comments.
Some very interesting thoughts. I very much liked the thought of - We aim to ‘work to live, not live to work’.
A pretty good ethos to live by.
Thanks once again.
P.S, I’ll still be using your products.
 :)

mjm

Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2021, 02:27:01 pm »
I would appreciate hearing your reasons, Alex.

First of all I want to say that I think we are very fortunate to be in an industry where we have, for the main part, been able to continue working and earning a living despite the Covid Pandemic restrictions. I am grateful that I was not in the hospitality or travel sector at this time.

My explanation below is in no way trying to complain or moan about the cost or challenges of doing business – I am very fortunate to have a robust business that has been steadily growing despite the world situation around us. Whilst we are still a small family business we do employ nearly 40 staff and having a healthy business does mean that this responsibility is not more burdensome than it needs to be.

Removal of Free Postage on orders over £60 – yes this is a price rise – pure and simple.

We have not always provided free postage, but introduced it as a sales promotion many years ago in order to ‘encourage’ customers to buy more goods from us to increase order size and spend more money with us – and this has always worked very well to gently push up the size of orders from our customers. Despite this, nearly 40% of our customer orders have paid for postage as they were under the free limit – such orders have not been affected.

Why remove this now? There are several reasons that have coalesced into this change.

1.   The price of doing business in the Covid and Post Brexit economy. The rise in prices have been relentless the last 15 months or so. All of our raw materials have increased in price dramatically – sometimes up to 3 price rises in one calendar year. The cost of moving/storing goods has been ridiculous. The cost of shipping a 20ft container has grown from about £1500 (just freight cost, not import and port handling) to about £5000 per container. Even the humble cardboard box has risen in price dramatically and we have faced serious national shortages of packaging materials leading to price spikes. Due to the continued growth within our industry sector, we have had to manage such growth during very challenging times – this has all been costly as every Covid precaution or post-Brexit ‘work around’ has cost us time and money and at a time when many of our staff could still not come into work.

2.   We have started to move into a time period where generally consumers are interested in cutting down waste and only purchasing what they need. With this in mind, some time ago we started charging a small amount for hose packs and connectors on our poles so that these would only be bought when wanted – this was also a price rise which helped our bottom line, but it did have the effect of reducing the purchasing of a component that may not have actually been needed. It also helped reduce the work load fractionally at a time when we were busier than ideal. There is an ethical issue with using promotions that encourage consumers to purchase more goods than they need and the removal of this ‘free shipping’ promotion means there is no pressure to buy just an ‘extra widget’ to hit an order value.

3.   We have a very dynamic and growing customer base that has considerably increased in order volume in the last twelve months– as a business this is always encouraging. However, the rate of customer order increase has been so dramatic that we had to look at ways of slowing such growth down. We have thought about closing our books to new customers temporarily but this would bring it’s own logistical problems. For the wholesale side in March 2020 we put a freeze in place around the world where we would not appoint any new Distributors either in the UK or Internationally – this freeze will remain in place for the rest of 2021 and probably into 2022. On the retail side we looked at many ways of trying to discourage new customers and reduce the order volume from existing customers – just as in a window cleaning business there is a limit to how many windows can be cleaned with finite resources and in 2020 we reached and exceeded such limits.  We aim to ‘work to live, not live to work’. One way of reducing customer orders is to reduce the range of goods supplied and we have been working on this for about 3 years now. However more was needed as we continued to grow so we chose to make the very noticeable method of rising prices by doing away with free shipping. We could have gently increased product prices that would easily have covered this and would probably have not even been noticed, but instead we wanted this very small price rise to be fully noticed, thought about and to have a larger psychological effect than its actual cost is.
Put bluntly we wanted to ‘lose’ some of our customers and their orders and for those who object to this small price rise strongly enough this will hopefully have such an effect and they will shop elsewhere – fortunately, there is plenty of choice in the market today and many other pole suppliers who can be bought from. 

Can I take this opportunity to thank all our customers who have been very understanding during this difficult time – we appreciate their support very much and we will continue to do the best we can to keep supplying our customers with the best product possible in the coming months ahead.

I hope that this has helped clarify why such a decision was made 😊

well done alex gardiner  on your on your success   and i wish you success in the future keep moving forward

i have a question  for you
do you think there is anyway when a customer buys from you an option for who the delivery company  handles the shipment.

say when i buy something   i can tick boxes       choice of delivery company     for  TNT    . FED EX  .YODEL  UKMAIL .  etc   and the delivery charge next to it .

Slacky

  • Posts: 8278
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2021, 02:30:01 pm »
Put bluntly we wanted to ‘lose’ some of our customers and their orders and for those who object to this small price rise strongly enough this will hopefully have such an effect and they will shop elsewhere – fortunately, there is plenty of choice in the market today and many other pole suppliers who can be bought from. 

Ha ha, love it! Thats what all the moaners keep suggesting they should do with their own customer base when they're busy busy busy.

Shoes on the other foot now...

 ;D ;D ;D

Slacky

  • Posts: 8278
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2021, 02:32:21 pm »
Getting rid of excess pain in the arse customers, we'll have to re-phrase it, call it 'Doing an Alex'.

Ggh

  • Posts: 1776
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2021, 02:54:14 pm »
Alex should double his prices to put off our competition.

KS Cleaning

  • Posts: 3952
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2021, 03:35:26 pm »
Alex do you have any plans to use other couriers rather than FedEx? Are you aware that when you get a tracking number from FedEx the information you get as far as tracking goes, is at best, very basic. They tell you when they have the item, when it leaves their depot and the delivery day, yes delivery day, no time am/pm time slot, just a delivery day up to 6 PM. Unfortunately the last two orders I’ve had haven’t turned up on the delivery day but FedEx cover themselves in the small print by saying this is only an estimate!!! It is abysmal given today’s tracking technology that this is the case with FedEx and it’s about time they dragged themselves into the 21st century and implemented an up to date tracking service.

Alex Gardiner

  • Posts: 7742
Re: Gardiner delivery charges
« Reply #59 on: April 23, 2021, 04:24:06 pm »
i have a question  for you
do you think there is anyway when a customer buys from you an option for who the delivery company  handles the shipment.

say when i buy something   i can tick boxes       choice of delivery company     for  TNT    . FED EX  .YODEL  UKMAIL .  etc   and the delivery charge next to it .

Hi mjm (and KS Cleaning)

The whole courier choice question is another issue entirely  :)

I have commented on this previously on various threads so apologies if this sounds familiar. Due to the high volume and percentage of pole boxes that we send out our freight class is classed as 'ugly freight' - due to their length most of our parcels do not fit on the conveyor belt sorting systems of all modern courier companies. Therefore, unless you send out less than 5% ‘ugly freight’ you cannot get a contract with a courier company to collect your goods. As we send out about 50% ugly freight each day we are restricted to a choice of just two companies who will do business with us and that choice is:

1. FedEx or
2. Parcel Force

Looking at Parcel Force – they do have better Apps and tracking notifications; however the downside is that they do not offer a next day service (which we always use) the fastest is 48 hours, their service is more expensive and their insurance offering is very poor and not really suitable for high value items. Despite knowing this we did trial them about 3 years ago as we desperately wanted to be able to offer our customers better order tacking and delivery options. However, in a two-week trial Parcelforce managed to lose over 25% of our pole parcels and it took weeks to sort out. Whilst they had assured us they could cope with our type of freight it would appear that once in the system the oversized nature of the parcels caused issues and led to chaos for us and the few hundred customers we trialled this on. The decision was to not switch to Parcelforce  ;D

So we have just FedEx left as an option – we are aware of the limitations of FedEx and these limitations also spread to our back office working with them. One member of our Customer Service Team spends an average of 4 hours every day purely in liaising and communicating with FedEx – so we are well aware of their network shortcomings.

However in their favour they are still happy to collect and deliver as many of our ‘ugly freight’ parcels as we can send them, they even have a lorry collection arranged daily for us and the driver is extremely helpful and patient. They also successfully transit about 98% of these parcels through their network first time, with no issues. Although frustrating when their communication lets them down in reality this is only a small percentage of the thousands of parcels they handle for us each month.

In contrast many years ago, before FedEx bought out TNT, we decided to switch away from FedEx to TNT as they were promising better service – after a year of even worse service we were relieved to get back to FedEx who, although not perfect, were a class above TNT at the time.

We do regularly reach out to all the other major courier services though to see if their policies/contracts have changed – at this current point FedEx are still the best we have available to us. We also regularly communicate with FedEx giving them feedback about the need for better tracking and delivery options – I think the takeover of TNT within the UK stretched their resources to the limit and as such any other IT & infrastructure investments are on a back-burner. In the US FedEx have far superior and modern delivery interactions and customer options.

For smaller items we send out there is always the option of switching to a Royal Mail service – for this to be arranged the order will need to be set up over the phone – if you ever require this then please drop us an email on sales@gardinerpolesystems.co.uk requesting a callback to place an order. The Customer Service Team can then set the order up for you and switch from a FedEx standard option to Royal Mail, Signed For option.