[combat1]

So my van has passed it’s m.o.t.!
Next project is to insulate my tank a bit better.
Currently using fibreglass blanket and fleece blanket.
Thought about 50mm polystyrene panels?
Apparently PIR panels need  a 20 mm gap.
Not got enough room for that.
Anybody got any knowledge?
Thanks

[Ched]

So you have 2 blankets and 50mm of polystyrene and it's not working???
Personally I would get the 50mm polystyrene as close to tank as possible and eliminate any air gaps, tape up all joints and put blankets over top. The Celotex/PU/PIR type insulation is better than polystyrene but significantly more expensive.
The fiberglass blanket type stuff should not be compressed as they rely on the trapped air pockets.
I think that sometimes a 20mm air gap is used to minimise condensation on cold surfaces. ie. the 20mm gap is between a cold exterior house wall and the insulation, I don't think that is needed when insulating a tank as the cold is on the outside of the insulation, so any condensation would not be trapped.

[combat1]

Thanks, I really appreciate the help.
Just got the blankets at the moment, which work fairly well. Water is still fair at 15.30.
Polystyrene was a possibility, not got it yet.
I think that’s the way I will go.
I should have mentioned I use an immersion.
Thanks

[Ched]

Thanks, I really appreciate the help.
Just got the blankets at the moment, which work fairly well. Water is still fair at 15.30.
Polystyrene was a possibility, not got it yet.
I think that’s the way I will go.
I should have mentioned I use an immersion.
Thanks

I would just try the polystyrene as it is much cheaper than PIR - not as good an insulator but should work fine. Be careful as I know someone who insulated their tank and cranked up the thermostat. The water was so much hotter the next day that they cracked a pane!!! So make sure your thermostat on the immersion isn't set too high. I think Wickes sell the polystyrene at reasonable costs and sizes.

[combat1]

Brilliant, great to get help. Thanks

[NWH]

What’s the regs on using an emersion does anyone know insurance wise having it in your house or van.

[Ched]

What’s the regs on using an emersion does anyone know insurance wise having it in your house or van.

I would guess the  IET 18th edition wiring regulations would be a good starting point for best practice but legally I don't think there is a reg for van mounted mains equipment.
As for insurance I would say always best to inform your insurance company that you are using mains heater in van same as you would inform insurance of using a diesel heater water heater in your van with frost stat?

[NWH]

Different regs m8 I asked the plumber I had doing some work at my house yesterday he said why do you want it doing I said no I have a diesel heater he said oh right,he said if I want it doing it would have to be done using a metal tank and the biggest they do is 300ltrs which heats up to 80degrees.
I asked him about a plastic tank and it having a 2kw or 3kw emersion element and he said legally it couldn’t be done by him and he didn’t know an electrician that would do it,I’m just interested to know how people have done it legally indoors or in the vehicle.

[NWH]

I’m not saying it can’t be done obviously there’s people doing it but have they informed their insurance I’m just wondering where it stands if they have a fire.

[chris turner]

Different regs m8 I asked the plumber I had doing some work at my house yesterday he said why do you want it doing I said no I have a diesel heater he said oh right,he said if I want it doing it would have to be done using a metal tank and the biggest they do is 300ltrs which heats up to 80degrees.
I asked him about a plastic tank and it having a 2kw or 3kw emersion element and he said legally it couldn’t be done by him and he didn’t know an electrician that would do it,I’m just interested to know how people have done it legally indoors or in the vehicle.

All tradespeople have their own views on what can and can't be done. For example, i have been struggling to find a 2kw 27 inch element anywhere, so today I got a sparky round to have a look at hooking me up a 16amp rig for the 3wk element already fitted in my tank. He told me its cheaper and perfectly fine to wire up the element with 10 metres of 2.5mm flex cable, a heavy duty rubberised 13amp plug and plug it into my kitchen in the oven socket.
Other sparkies would advise otherwise I'm sure, so I told him I would have a think about it.

[chris turner]

Thanks, I really appreciate the help.
Just got the blankets at the moment, which work fairly well. Water is still fair at 15.30.
Polystyrene was a possibility, not got it yet.
I think that’s the way I will go.
I should have mentioned I use an immersion.
Thanks

I would just try the polystyrene as it is much cheaper than PIR - not as good an insulator but should work fine. Be careful as I know someone who insulated their tank and cranked up the thermostat. The water was so much hotter the next day that they cracked a pane!!! So make sure your thermostat on the immersion isn't set too high. I think Wickes sell the polystyrene at reasonable costs and sizes.

What temp would you recommend on the thermostat? Mine is currently set at 65c

[KS Cleaning]

Different regs m8 I asked the plumber I had doing some work at my house yesterday he said why do you want it doing I said no I have a diesel heater he said oh right,he said if I want it doing it would have to be done using a metal tank and the biggest they do is 300ltrs which heats up to 80degrees.
I asked him about a plastic tank and it having a 2kw or 3kw emersion element and he said legally it couldn’t be done by him and he didn’t know an electrician that would do it,I’m just interested to know how people have done it legally indoors or in the vehicle.

Your plumber friend will be talking about a house install i.e. an immersion install to provide hot water to a household, which is a different kettle of fish altogether. Sometimes plumbers are better not to speculate on what an electrician can and can’t do.

[NWH]

No I explained to him about the setup that was all to see where people stood he had of course not heard of it being done all he said was with water and electricity there are strict laws,his words not mine a heating element shouldn’t be put into a plastic tank it should be fitted to a metal tank and the biggest he could get his hands on would be a 300ltr one,the plastic tank with electricity was his main concern.

[KS Cleaning]

No I explained to him about the setup that was all to see where people stood he had of course not heard of it being done all he said was with water and electricity there are strict laws,his words not mine a heating element shouldn’t be put into a plastic tank it should be fitted to a metal tank and the biggest he could get his hands on would be a 300ltr one,the plastic tank with electricity was his main concern.

Better make sure you have a metal kettle then and not a plastic one.

[Ched]

Different regs m8 I asked the plumber I had doing some work at my house yesterday he said why do you want it doing I said no I have a diesel heater he said oh right,he said if I want it doing it would have to be done using a metal tank and the biggest they do is 300ltrs which heats up to 80degrees.
I asked him about a plastic tank and it having a 2kw or 3kw emersion element and he said legally it couldn’t be done by him and he didn’t know an electrician that would do it,I’m just interested to know how people have done it legally indoors or in the vehicle.

Interesting. I am surprised a plumber would know anything about electrical regs.  I believe plumbers have to abide by WRAS regulations.  If they are working on Gas then they are legally required to be Gas Safe registered.

 The electrical supply to a domestic immersion heater element is not something a plumber is qualified to install. Yes the can connect a flex to an outlet but they not legally allowed to install a new circuit as it's notifiable work (unless they are certified to notify).  Also the electrical regs are not a legal requirement they are a guide!!!!  I don't believe there is a Law in the UK governing electrical installations apart from notifiable works. If you were a landlord or had public in a building you own then to cover your self you might get a suitably qualified electrician to provide an EICR (Electrical Installation Condition Report) and have any faults rectified as that is enough proof to an insurance company that you have protected public safety.
There is obviously H&S at work act and The Electricity at Work Regulations (EWR) 1989 that must be complied with as its 'at work' if the immersion heater is used for work!
UK electrical regs are quite complex - some aspects are law depending on what you are doing, others are advisory, and then there is what is safe to do!!!
 
Bottom line is if you use an immersion heater can you prove to an insurance company that: a. it's installed safely, and b. did you tell them of the modification?

[KS Cleaning]

Thanks, I really appreciate the help.
Just got the blankets at the moment, which work fairly well. Water is still fair at 15.30.
Polystyrene was a possibility, not got it yet.
I think that’s the way I will go.
I should have mentioned I use an immersion.
Thanks

I wouldn’t be too fussy about it being totally insulated, infact you are better off having some heat escape as your tank then acts like a giant radiator to prevent your equipment from freezing overnight.

[Ched]

Different regs m8 I asked the plumber I had doing some work at my house yesterday he said why do you want it doing I said no I have a diesel heater he said oh right,he said if I want it doing it would have to be done using a metal tank and the biggest they do is 300ltrs which heats up to 80degrees.
I asked him about a plastic tank and it having a 2kw or 3kw emersion element and he said legally it couldn’t be done by him and he didn’t know an electrician that would do it,I’m just interested to know how people have done it legally indoors or in the vehicle.

All tradespeople have their own views on what can and can't be done. For example, i have been struggling to find a 2kw 27 inch element anywhere, so today I got a sparky round to have a look at hooking me up a 16amp rig for the 3wk element already fitted in my tank. He told me its cheaper and perfectly fine to wire up the element with 10 metres of 2.5mm flex cable, a heavy duty rubberised 13amp plug and plug it into my kitchen in the oven socket.
Other sparkies would advise otherwise I'm sure, so I told him I would have a think about it.

That's the thing about UK electrical installations is that the regulations are a guide and you need skill to interpret them.  Was the electrician who suggested the 2.5mm cable an older chap? I suspect he was.
To be honest 3000watts is right on the edge of what is allowed on a 13A plug. The immersion heater will be pulling 3000watts for quite a few hrs so you need to get the best quality cable, connectors etc you can, don't scrimp at all.
As the cable is outdoors that helps with heat dissipation plus a cooker oven socket is fed with a thicker cable usually fused at 40Amps! So the cooker socket is not a 'standard' socket!
Plus as it's on a flying lead it comes under portable appliance regs not domestic installation so again different regs and guides.

[chris turner]

Different regs m8 I asked the plumber I had doing some work at my house yesterday he said why do you want it doing I said no I have a diesel heater he said oh right,he said if I want it doing it would have to be done using a metal tank and the biggest they do is 300ltrs which heats up to 80degrees.
I asked him about a plastic tank and it having a 2kw or 3kw emersion element and he said legally it couldn’t be done by him and he didn’t know an electrician that would do it,I’m just interested to know how people have done it legally indoors or in the vehicle.

All tradespeople have their own views on what can and can't be done. For example, i have been struggling to find a 2kw 27 inch element anywhere, so today I got a sparky round to have a look at hooking me up a 16amp rig for the 3wk element already fitted in my tank. He told me its cheaper and perfectly fine to wire up the element with 10 metres of 2.5mm flex cable, a heavy duty rubberised 13amp plug and plug it into my kitchen in the oven socket.
Other sparkies would advise otherwise I'm sure, so I told him I would have a think about it.

That's the thing about UK electrical installations is that the regulations are a guide and you need skill to interpret them.  Was the electrician who suggested the 2.5mm cable an older chap? I suspect he was.
To be honest 3000watts is right on the edge of what is allowed on a 13A plug. The immersion heater will be pulling 3000watts for quite a few hrs so you need to get the best quality cable, connectors etc you can, don't scrimp at all.
As the cable is outdoors that helps with heat dissipation plus a cooker oven socket is fed with a thicker cable usually fused at 40Amps! So the cooker socket is not a 'standard' socket!
Plus as it's on a flying lead it comes under portable appliance regs not domestic installation so again different regs and guides.

So you saying its not ideal but he's right and it would be fine?

[Ched]

So you saying its not ideal but he's right and it would be fine?

Although, many years ago I was employed as an electrician by MoD I have not passed the regs (17th at time). So although I wouldn't do it as long as you use good quality parts you should be OK should being operative word. I would get the electrician to wire up both ends and to test it and give you a receipt for the work!!!

[NWH]

If you can get a qualified electrician to give you a ticket for it,that was the plumbers dilemma he didn’t seem to think you would do.