[Splash & dash]

Yes it's gonna be nice and warm on your hands, supple hoses etc.

It will also cut through thick dirt, algae etc quicker. It's a fact hot water dissolves solubles quicker. Remember science experiments at school?

But for you average regular clean it's not gonna clean any quicker. Neither will it be any cleaner. Clean is clean.

At this time of year I would love hot systems in both our vans but I'm not prepared to pay the money. I'm not prepared to drill a hole in my tanks for an immersion either. We just put up with oiled filled rads in winter to prevent freezing.

Not so, hot water has no effect of dirt at all - where hot will help is grease and other contamination that was warm at one time and gone cold - the hot will solidify the grease to help removal - dirt is dirt and does not change - algae is also formed in cold weather - and even Nigels attempts at hot are not enough to sterilise the surface therefore not really having an effect  if your using chemicals them warm will make these work better which in turn makes cleaning easier - but now a lot of chemicals are being designed for cold use.

I have a fixed rate over night for a commercial premises - no doubt that will be reviewed soon as ive had it for 5 years 

I find it interesting that all those with diesel heaters resist getting them serviced - ( more cost etc... ) in this day and age where every other industry is trying to go green - here we are promoting dirty and innefficient oil burning systems that and never maintained to their optimum performance....

Darran

.     



If you speak to wabasto engineers they will tell you there is nothing to service they either work or they don’t , I have them in all our vans and wanted to have a service contract with our local wabasto dealer he told me there is nothing to service just use it until it doesn’t work , I have just replaced the burner screen and pin on one van after 6 years and over 12,000 hours run time so this goes to prove they don’t need annual servicing . As for the pollution they produce burning one ltr of fuel per hour I dont think there is to much to worry about there isn’t any noticeable smoke from it and again the wabasto agents said they produce far less pollution than a normal Diesel engine and would pass an mot test better than most cars . Hot water dissolves all dirt and algi quicker than cold that’s a scientific fact , but again Ime not interested in arguing the point , immersion  heaters will not provide the same temperature water as a gas/ diesel  heater at the brush been there and done that years ago , but the Immersion route is better than nothing , you ideally need water at the brush head of 60-65 degrees for maximum cleaning power that’s what we find and have been working this way for the last 6+ years I certainly wouldn’t have spent the best part of 15-18 k on hot if it was if no advantage , probably 60% of our work is  costal and covered in salt we have some large hotels that with cold took 8 hours on a 4 weekly cycle to clean now we do them in around  4-5 hours ,
each to there own with how they choose to work but this is what we have found works best .

[Dry Clean]

I have 2 kw heaters in the tank and they run from 8 pm to 7 am @ 9p per kw/h (18p per hour) x 11 hours so quick maths is £1.98 ver van per night
Only use it if the outside temp is dropping below 3 degrees - it is a comfort thing - you can find many studies and reports that hot water cleans no better than cold - however it is more comfortable to use when it's below 5 degrees. 
I will add again I'm not against hot water it has some uses but doesn't make a big enough impact to pay 5k for it.

Darran

I’d say that’s one of the most heated debates on this forum (Pun intended) because no one seems to be able to prove either way. The only way to test it is to try both and base it on experience.

I’d be interested to see these studies you speak of. 

Here's an almost 14 year common sense study,
I don't use hot, you do.
You don't lose custom due to poor quality cleans, neither do I.
You don't clean quicker or do any less scrubbing than I do.
You would have slightly more flexible hoses in the colder months, one plus that an immersion would cure for me.
Its costs you more to clean a window than it costs me, which means less profit for you.
You can clean in minus temps which means you can make up for that lost profit by cleaning in the frost, still no benefit in my books.
Do I need to go on ?

[Richard Groves]

I'm not saying hot water would not be of benefit to cleaning my coastal properties. What I'm saying is that in my current circumstances I've better things to spend my money on. I get by fine with the set up I use. I may get home an hour earlier but that's about it.

[NWH]

Unless the water you use is hot enough you won’t see the kind of cleaning results most talk about it needs to be 55-65 degrees,you will get supple hoses and it’ll be more pleasurable to work using warm water from an element etc but using what I call proper hot water the results are evident.

[Jonny 87]

I have 2 kw heaters in the tank and they run from 8 pm to 7 am @ 9p per kw/h (18p per hour) x 11 hours so quick maths is £1.98 ver van per night
Only use it if the outside temp is dropping below 3 degrees - it is a comfort thing - you can find many studies and reports that hot water cleans no better than cold - however it is more comfortable to use when it's below 5 degrees. 
I will add again I'm not against hot water it has some uses but doesn't make a big enough impact to pay 5k for it.

Darran

I’d say that’s one of the most heated debates on this forum (Pun intended) because no one seems to be able to prove either way. The only way to test it is to try both and base it on experience.

I’d be interested to see these studies you speak of. 

Here's an almost 14 year common sense study,
I don't use hot, you do.
You don't lose custom due to poor quality cleans, neither do I.
You don't clean quicker or do any less scrubbing than I do.
You would have slightly more flexible hoses in the colder months, one plus that an immersion would cure for me.
Its costs you more to clean a window than it costs me, which means less profit for you.
You can clean in minus temps which means you can make up for that lost profit by cleaning in the frost, still no benefit in my books.
Do I need to go on ?

Only 14 years? I thought you were an old codger? 

No need to go on, don’t worry. Experience is the best teacher I’ve found.

I’ve used ladders and squeegee, backpack systems,  cold wfp systems, portable shower lpg heaters, xtel fibreglass poles, manual reels that i lifted out the van, immersion heaters and the list goes on.

Now.......... 700 litre tank, Grippatank 9kw Heater with frost stat, powered reels, floor rollers under the van for security and speed, 340 amps of battery power, Gardiner extreme poles.

If I had to start again..... I’d buy the exact same set up. If cash was a consideration, I’d go for an immersion as that is the closest rival.

I love my set up though. 

[Dry Clean]

I have 2 kw heaters in the tank and they run from 8 pm to 7 am @ 9p per kw/h (18p per hour) x 11 hours so quick maths is £1.98 ver van per night
Only use it if the outside temp is dropping below 3 degrees - it is a comfort thing - you can find many studies and reports that hot water cleans no better than cold - however it is more comfortable to use when it's below 5 degrees. 
I will add again I'm not against hot water it has some uses but doesn't make a big enough impact to pay 5k for it.

Darran

I’d say that’s one of the most heated debates on this forum (Pun intended) because no one seems to be able to prove either way. The only way to test it is to try both and base it on experience.

I’d be interested to see these studies you speak of. 

Here's an almost 14 year common sense study,
I don't use hot, you do.
You don't lose custom due to poor quality cleans, neither do I.
You don't clean quicker or do any less scrubbing than I do.
You would have slightly more flexible hoses in the colder months, one plus that an immersion would cure for me.
Its costs you more to clean a window than it costs me, which means less profit for you.
You can clean in minus temps which means you can make up for that lost profit by cleaning in the frost, still no benefit in my books.
Do I need to go on ?

Only 14 years? I thought you were an old codger? 

No need to go on, don’t worry. Experience is the best teacher I’ve found.

I’ve used ladders and squeegee, backpack systems,  cold wfp systems, portable shower lpg heaters, xtel fibreglass poles, manual reels that i lifted out the van, immersion heaters and the list goes on.

Now.......... 700 litre tank, Grippatank 9kw Heater with frost stat, powered reels, floor rollers under the van for security and speed, 340 amps of battery power, Gardiner extreme poles.

If I had to start again..... I’d buy the exact same set up. If cash was a consideration, I’d go for an immersion as that is the closest rival.

I love my set up though. 

I am an old codger, I didn't start cleaning windows until my mid 40s. 😁 cant believe its been 14 years.

[Jonny 87]

I have 2 kw heaters in the tank and they run from 8 pm to 7 am @ 9p per kw/h (18p per hour) x 11 hours so quick maths is £1.98 ver van per night
Only use it if the outside temp is dropping below 3 degrees - it is a comfort thing - you can find many studies and reports that hot water cleans no better than cold - however it is more comfortable to use when it's below 5 degrees. 
I will add again I'm not against hot water it has some uses but doesn't make a big enough impact to pay 5k for it.

Darran

I’d say that’s one of the most heated debates on this forum (Pun intended) because no one seems to be able to prove either way. The only way to test it is to try both and base it on experience.

I’d be interested to see these studies you speak of. 

Here's an almost 14 year common sense study,
I don't use hot, you do.
You don't lose custom due to poor quality cleans, neither do I.
You don't clean quicker or do any less scrubbing than I do.
You would have slightly more flexible hoses in the colder months, one plus that an immersion would cure for me.
Its costs you more to clean a window than it costs me, which means less profit for you.
You can clean in minus temps which means you can make up for that lost profit by cleaning in the frost, still no benefit in my books.
Do I need to go on ?

Only 14 years? I thought you were an old codger? 

No need to go on, don’t worry. Experience is the best teacher I’ve found.

I’ve used ladders and squeegee, backpack systems,  cold wfp systems, portable shower lpg heaters, xtel fibreglass poles, manual reels that i lifted out the van, immersion heaters and the list goes on.

Now.......... 700 litre tank, Grippatank 9kw Heater with frost stat, powered reels, floor rollers under the van for security and speed, 340 amps of battery power, Gardiner extreme poles.

If I had to start again..... I’d buy the exact same set up. If cash was a consideration, I’d go for an immersion as that is the closest rival.

I love my set up though. 

I am an old codger, I didn't start cleaning windows until my mid 40s. 😁 cant believe its been 14 years.

Ah your still a spring chicken. 😁  By dads just turned 62 and is still loving window cleaning. Two days a week mind you. That’s probably the secret.

[zesty]

Yes it's gonna be nice and warm on your hands, supple hoses etc.

It will also cut through thick dirt, algae etc quicker. It's a fact hot water dissolves solubles quicker. Remember science experiments at school?

But for you average regular clean it's not gonna clean any quicker. Neither will it be any cleaner. Clean is clean.

At this time of year I would love hot systems in both our vans but I'm not prepared to pay the money. I'm not prepared to drill a hole in my tanks for an immersion either. We just put up with oiled filled rads in winter to prevent freezing.

Not so, hot water has no effect of dirt at all - where hot will help is grease and other contamination that was warm at one time and gone cold - the hot will solidify the grease to help removal - dirt is dirt and does not change - algae is also formed in cold weather - and even Nigels attempts at hot are not enough to sterilise the surface therefore not really having an effect  if your using chemicals them warm will make these work better which in turn makes cleaning easier - but now a lot of chemicals are being designed for cold use.

I have a fixed rate over night for a commercial premises - no doubt that will be reviewed soon as ive had it for 5 years 

I find it interesting that all those with diesel heaters resist getting them serviced - ( more cost etc... ) in this day and age where every other industry is trying to go green - here we are promoting dirty and innefficient oil burning systems that and never maintained to their optimum performance....

Darran

You are a spot on darran.

Hot water has no effect on dirt, dust etc. It’s grease and fats where it comes into its own.

You can prove this by simply pouring cold water over a sheet of glass covered in dirt, and then doing the same with hot. It has the same effect.

Dirt does not react to hot water like grease etc.

Spot on with algae as well. Algae on plastic will come off just as easily with cold water.

People just have it in there heads that hot works wonders. It doesn’t. If it did, you wouldn’t need tk scrub.

Windows are cleansed by scrubbing. Not water alone. It’s the combination of the brush and water that cleans.

It also makes me laugh when people claim that pure water cleans better than normal. That’s also rubbish. The only reason we use pure is for the end result. Not the cleaning.

There is one area that hot is better than cold in window cleaning, and that’s bird muck.

[NWH]

You’ve never used 55-65 degree water then because by the looks of that reply it’s obvious to me you haven’t,hotter the water the less scrubbing needed hot water dissolves dirt quicker go and hold a dirty plate under cold water and then hold a dirty one under a hot tap.
The heat from the water lifts dirt without hardly any scrubbing now take that principle and apply it to WFP,do you honestly think I’d bother if it was no better 🤣 I’d stick with working with iced water and wire for hose.

[NWH]

Birds muck eh what about PVC frames that have lots of seals on them that get engrained with green algae,I suppose a squirt of TFR does the trick most of the time it doesn’t get them anywhere to the same standard as hot water.
Conservatory roofs with cold water 🤔 I love cleaning the plastic dividers with cold water eh,come on lads just give me your 5 grand 🤣🤣

[KS Cleaning]

You’ve never used 55-65 degree water then because by the looks of that reply it’s obvious to me you haven’t,hotter the water the less scrubbing needed hot water dissolves dirt quicker go and hold a dirty plate under cold water and then hold a dirty one under a hot tap.
The heat from the water lifts dirt without hardly any scrubbing now take that principle and apply it to WFP,do you honestly think I’d bother if it was no better 🤣 I’d stick with working with iced water and wire for hose.

You don’t tend to get dried in beans, gravy, sauce etc on the windows I clean! so this doing dishes with hot water thing you keep banging on about holds no relevance whatsoever when compared to cleaning windows 🤣

[Stoots]

Ive no doubt that hot is beneficial it certain circumstances.

But ive also no doubt that the outlay isnt worth it, its simply too expensive and running costs too high to warrant its use.

[Splash & dash]

Ive no doubt that hot is beneficial it certain circumstances.

But ive also no doubt that the outlay isnt worth it, its simply too expensive and running costs too high to warrant its use.

All depends on your work if doing a handful of houses a day no you won’t make it pay  if doing thousands of windows on hotels, apartment blocks and hundreds of sheets of balustrade every week then it’s a no brainier .

[Simon Trapani]

I can see some good points from both sides of the argument here but also some complete rubbish spoken.

I’m a cold user but hot would dissolve dirt quicker. Not cleaner, but quicker. But is it magic enough to just dissolve grease? No. You’d need detergent for grease. I work on the seafront also & have never found it hard work with cold. The sand on the hose is a problem.

And pure water is slightly better at cleaning than tap water as it wants to return back to it’s higher tds or so I’ve read.

Like I’ve said, I would like hot but don’t want to spend on a system or the running costs.

[Splash & dash]

I can see some good points from both sides of the argument here but also some complete rubbish spoken.

I’m a cold user but hot would dissolve dirt quicker. Not cleaner, but quicker. But is it magic enough to just dissolve grease? No. You’d need detergent for grease. I work on the seafront also & have never found it hard work with cold. The sand on the hose is a problem.

And pure water is slightly better at cleaning than tap water as it wants to return back to it’s higher tds or so I’ve read.

Like I’ve said, I would like hot but don’t want to spend on a system or the running costs.

That really sums it up , you don’t want to pay for it although you would like it , and that’s fine each to there own , I would never go back we use hot all year round , and the work we do it costs peanuts and is well worth the expense

[Bungle]

Yes it's gonna be nice and warm on your hands, supple hoses etc.

It will also cut through thick dirt, algae etc quicker. It's a fact hot water dissolves solubles quicker. Remember science experiments at school?

But for you average regular clean it's not gonna clean any quicker. Neither will it be any cleaner. Clean is clean.

At this time of year I would love hot systems in both our vans but I'm not prepared to pay the money. I'm not prepared to drill a hole in my tanks for an immersion either. We just put up with oiled filled rads in winter to prevent freezing.

Not so, hot water has no effect of dirt at all - where hot will help is grease and other contamination that was warm at one time and gone cold - the hot will solidify the grease to help removal - dirt is dirt and does not change - algae is also formed in cold weather - and even Nigels attempts at hot are not enough to sterilise the surface therefore not really having an effect  if your using chemicals them warm will make these work better which in turn makes cleaning easier - but now a lot of chemicals are being designed for cold use.

I have a fixed rate over night for a commercial premises - no doubt that will be reviewed soon as ive had it for 5 years 

I find it interesting that all those with diesel heaters resist getting them serviced - ( more cost etc... ) in this day and age where every other industry is trying to go green - here we are promoting dirty and innefficient oil burning systems that and never maintained to their optimum performance....

Darran

.     



If you speak to wabasto engineers they will tell you there is nothing to service they either work or they don’t , I have them in all our vans and wanted to have a service contract with our local wabasto dealer he told me there is nothing to service just use it until it doesn’t work , I have just replaced the burner screen and pin on one van after 6 years and over 12,000 hours run time so this goes to prove they don’t need annual servicing . As for the pollution they produce burning one ltr of fuel per hour I dont think there is to much to worry about there isn’t any noticeable smoke from it and again the wabasto agents said they produce far less pollution than a normal Diesel engine and would pass an mot test better than most cars . Hot water dissolves all dirt and algi quicker than cold that’s a scientific fact , but again Ime not interested in arguing the point , immersion  heaters will not provide the same temperature water as a gas/ diesel  heater at the brush been there and done that years ago , but the Immersion route is better than nothing , you ideally need water at the brush head of 60-65 degrees for maximum cleaning power that’s what we find and have been working this way for the last 6+ years I certainly wouldn’t have spent the best part of 15-18 k on hot if it was if no advantage , probably 60% of our work is  costal and covered in salt we have some large hotels that with cold took 8 hours on a 4 weekly cycle to clean now we do them in around  4-5 hours ,
each to there own with how they choose to work but this is what we have found works best .

Do large hotels really want their windows cleaned every 4 weeks, in this climate and with your prices? They'd be bankrupt 

[dd]

Funny how a post on Checking Your Van translates into a debate on the benefits of hot water, not like we have had these before.

[Splash & dash]

Yes it's gonna be nice and warm on your hands, supple hoses etc.

It will also cut through thick dirt, algae etc quicker. It's a fact hot water dissolves solubles quicker. Remember science experiments at school?

But for you average regular clean it's not gonna clean any quicker. Neither will it be any cleaner. Clean is clean.

At this time of year I would love hot systems in both our vans but I'm not prepared to pay the money. I'm not prepared to drill a hole in my tanks for an immersion either. We just put up with oiled filled rads in winter to prevent freezing.

Not so, hot water has no effect of dirt at all - where hot will help is grease and other contamination that was warm at one time and gone cold - the hot will solidify the grease to help removal - dirt is dirt and does not change - algae is also formed in cold weather - and even Nigels attempts at hot are not enough to sterilise the surface therefore not really having an effect  if your using chemicals them warm will make these work better which in turn makes cleaning easier - but now a lot of chemicals are being designed for cold use.

I have a fixed rate over night for a commercial premises - no doubt that will be reviewed soon as ive had it for 5 years 

I find it interesting that all those with diesel heaters resist getting them serviced - ( more cost etc... ) in this day and age where every other industry is trying to go green - here we are promoting dirty and innefficient oil burning systems that and never maintained to their optimum performance....

Darran

.     



If you speak to wabasto engineers they will tell you there is nothing to service they either work or they don’t , I have them in all our vans and wanted to have a service contract with our local wabasto dealer he told me there is nothing to service just use it until it doesn’t work , I have just replaced the burner screen and pin on one van after 6 years and over 12,000 hours run time so this goes to prove they don’t need annual servicing . As for the pollution they produce burning one ltr of fuel per hour I dont think there is to much to worry about there isn’t any noticeable smoke from it and again the wabasto agents said they produce far less pollution than a normal Diesel engine and would pass an mot test better than most cars . Hot water dissolves all dirt and algi quicker than cold that’s a scientific fact , but again Ime not interested in arguing the point , immersion  heaters will not provide the same temperature water as a gas/ diesel  heater at the brush been there and done that years ago , but the Immersion route is better than nothing , you ideally need water at the brush head of 60-65 degrees for maximum cleaning power that’s what we find and have been working this way for the last 6+ years I certainly wouldn’t have spent the best part of 15-18 k on hot if it was if no advantage , probably 60% of our work is  costal and covered in salt we have some large hotels that with cold took 8 hours on a 4 weekly cycle to clean now we do them in around  4-5 hours ,
each to there own with how they choose to work but this is what we have found works best .

Do large hotels really want their windows cleaned every 4 weeks, in this climate and with your prices? They'd be bankrupt 

Yes in fact with 3 of them we have been doing them weekly due to bad weather and guests cannot see out of the windows , but they are on hold again due to holidays being banned at this time , hopefully now we will be able to catch up on some plastic cleans , gutter vac jobs and a bit of soft washing .

[NWH]

I can see some good points from both sides of the argument here but also some complete rubbish spoken.

I’m a cold user but hot would dissolve dirt quicker. Not cleaner, but quicker. But is it magic enough to just dissolve grease? No. You’d need detergent for grease. I work on the seafront also & have never found it hard work with cold. The sand on the hose is a problem.

And pure water is slightly better at cleaning than tap water as it wants to return back to it’s higher tds or so I’ve read.

Like I’ve said, I would like hot but don’t want to spend on a system or the running costs.

That really sums it up , you don’t want to pay for it although you would like it , and that’s fine each to there own , I would never go back we use hot all year round , and the work we do it costs peanuts and is well worth the expense

Same as depends it’s pennies compared what you can earn with it we have very very little overheads even if it was a 100 notes a week it’s nothing compared to what other so called trades have to lay out on for work ie saws-drills the list goes on.

[robbo333]

My van is ok.
I take my pole out every night, drain it down, and cover the rest in a duvet. No problems so far.
I can't park my van near the house so I am a bit stuffed!
I can see the benefits of hot water but i'm 56 years old. I am aiming towards...no more fsg cleans, no connie roofs, first cleans I don't need it anyway (because i know what i'm doing). I want my life simple.
Hopefully soon I'll be getting a Toyota Hilux pickup and just doing maintenance cleans.
No more gutter vacs, no more pressure washing, no more fsg jobs and no more conny roofs. I have a mate who can do all this for me.
Happy days...!