[Amazin]

Was reading news about gymshark's success from few gym bros to being valued at $1.4bn. I can't help but to think about what we're doing. I know many of us are earning a very good wage, perhaps most of us don't earn £500 per day but still better than most jobs. 

For the highly ambitious few, if you're really want to go big. Which direction would you be thinking  of taking your WC business  to next?

some pointers wold be great

[zesty]

I suppose you’ve got;

Creating a big company, I.e 10’s of staff.

Going into production, like gardiners etc.

Or, just hitting the jackpot with commercial contracts.

Those are the three most obvious.

Problem with window cleaning is, it kind of is what it is, it’s very hard to scale it up in the same way as gym shark for example.

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

If I wanted to go big, I'd get out of window cleaning to do it.👍

[Smudger]

Window cleaning itself is never going to be big,

Your looking more at "contract cleaning" type of biz where you offer cleaning as a package like mitre or Norse

Just as the little guys feel bigger companies bring the prices down, the one man bands are a big block on a company going really big in the window cleaning sector

Darran

[Stoots]

You cant , theres not enough profit margin in it .

I think Lee pryor once quoted some figures of 1 million turnover to net profit 150k or something like that. When you add up all whats involved in getting to that level why would you do it when you could have just 1 guy working with you and stay just under VAT paying him 15/20k a year.

I mean to be a really big business with 10 million turnover or something would take a monumental effort, 100 vans or more....its not worth it, better looking for something else if you want to be a millionarie. Its not that easy to build systems and scale when you are relying on low payed numptys to go out and clean the work to the required standard.

[zesty]

You cant , theres not enough profit margin in it .

I think Lee pryor once quoted some figures of 1 million turnover to net profit 150k or something like that. When you add up all whats involved in getting to that level why would you do it when you could have just 1 guy working with you and stay just under VAT paying him 15/20k a year.

I mean to be a really big business with 10 million turnover or something would take a monumental effort, 100 vans or more....its not worth it, better looking for something else if you want to be a millionarie. Its not that easy to build systems and scale when you are relying on low payed numptys to go out and clean the work to the required standard.

That’s right, it’s just not that kind of business. It isn’t scalable in the same way as others. You can have many staff, but they can only clean x amount of windows per day. There’s a limit to the earning potential, per van, per day.

On the whole, window cleaning suits small scale business models, or one man bands.

For me, window cleaning is a relatively stress free, simple job. That’s why I stick at it!

[Simon Trapani]

We have no product. We’re just selling labour.

Can still earn a damn good living though.

[Stoots]

I think the problem is for a lot of window cleaners (myself included) is this is the first business they have had so they want to try and scale it without any real business knoweldge or experience of growing and scaling a business...not realising that they are struggling and banging their head against a wall because the basic model just isnt great. ....Perhaps if you were a business owner from another background you would easily see why its not really been done.

If it was easy it would have been done by now on a huge scale and to my knowledge it hasnt, at least not domestically, i mean there will be businesses with 5/10 or maybe 20 vans but really thats not a "big" business in the real world its a small enterprise.

[Pete Thompson]

Lee Pryor broke it down like this:

—
£1millon turnover
£150k vat
£384k 12 cleaners (includes holiday pay NI ect)
£45k 2 office staff
£39k van finance
£30k premises rent and bills
£40k diesel
£12k vehicle maintenance
£12k consumables - poles resin brushes ect ect
£2.5k accountant fees
£30k marketing (to maintain NOT grow)
£255,500.00 gross profit
£48,545 corporation tax at 19%
£206,955.00 Net profit

—

why would you do it when you could have just 1 guy working with you and stay just under VAT paying him 15/20k a year.

Because if you did that (say your worker is self employed) you’d be earning:
Turnover : £85k
Salary of worker : £17.5k
Expenses-Fuel etc (20% of turnover) : £17k
Gross profit : £50,500
Corporation tax (19%) : £9,595
Net Profit : £40,905

£41k is alright I suppose, but which would you rather have? £41k or £207k

[Lee Pryor]

I know which I would rather have.

I would also advise anyone considering taking someone on to employ them and do it properly. Not self employed.

[zesty]

I’m not up for the stress. I do nigh on £50k a year turnover on 6 hours a day. I love my work life balance.

Don’t get me wrong, £200k plus a year is a very very nice wage. But to bank role a business the size of lee’s, whilst paying my mortgage and bringing up a family, just doesn’t interest me.

Lee had to make sacrifices most of us just aren’t in a position to do. Like selling our houses and moving in with parents.

It’s a very personal situation for most people.

Glad it worked for lee. Glad it works for those who want to remain a sole trader. Ultimately, though, window cleaning will always be a small business for the many.

[Dry Clean]

If there was big money in window cleaning you would have the big money chasers going after it, as Iv said many times there a reason why there is no Amazon or Virgin window cleaning.

[NWH]

Window cleaning has always been a lifestyle choice it enables you to earn more than a lot of trades and still have your freedom I can’t see it in our lifetime as being anything else,employ small and don’t have intense hassle because it can be at times.
If someone said to me I’ll pay you 200k before the dreaded but you’ve got to employ 10+ people I know what I’d say to them,no thanks because then you’re life just becomes about work 1-2 million a year is not a big business but in this industry you’d feel like you were working in one with the stress at times. I can’t see me buying a swivel chair anytime soon in 30-40 years time it’ll be over enjoy living being a millionaire isn’t all it’s cracked up to be I know enough of em 🤣.

[Dry Clean]

Lee Pryor broke it down like this:

—
£1millon turnover
£150k vat
£384k 12 cleaners (includes holiday pay NI ect)
£45k 2 office staff
£39k van finance
£30k premises rent and bills
£40k diesel
£12k vehicle maintenance
£12k consumables - poles resin brushes ect ect
£2.5k accountant fees
£30k marketing (to maintain NOT grow)
£255,500.00 gross profit
£48,545 corporation tax at 19%
£206,955.00 Net profit

—

why would you do it when you could have just 1 guy working with you and stay just under VAT paying him 15/20k a year.

Because if you did that (say your worker is self employed) you’d be earning:
Turnover : £85k
Salary of worker : £17.5k
Expenses-Fuel etc (20% of turnover) : £17k
Gross profit : £50,500
Corporation tax (19%) : £9,595
Net Profit : £40,905

£41k is alright I suppose, but which would you rather have? £41k or £207k

Open your eyes Pete, even if he is getting £207K a year which I very much doubt ( for a start employee costs and others are way off) you still haven't deducted all the marketing costs and hours he has put into it before getting to this point, this has to be paid back before a real profit is made, put it this way if you had 3 million ( and I suspect he thinks its worth a lot more) to invest/buy would you put it into a company where it would take 15 to 20 years of problem free trading before you break even, its  a house of cards/vanity project and he well knows it.

[dazmond]

Was reading news about gymshark's success from few gym bros to being valued at $1.4bn. I can't help but to think about what we're doing. I know many of us are earning a very good wage, perhaps most of us don't earn £500 per day but still better than most jobs. 

For the highly ambitious few, if you're really want to go big. Which direction would you be thinking  of taking your WC business  to next?

some pointers wold be great

ironically ive just bought some jogging pants and a t shirt from gymshark for the first time the other day.....really good fitting clobber.....not too expensive either!(£25 each including delivery).......

as for getting big in window cleaning...no...its not for me...id rather spend my time getting bigger in the gym myself.....

[TomCrowther]

The op didn’t specify what big money to him was. I think anything into six figures is still considered high earning but everything is relative.
What everyone is searching for whether we realise it or not is contentment.

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

The op didn’t specify what big money to him was. I think anything into six figures is still considered high earning but everything is relative.
What everyone is searching for whether we realise it or not is contentment.

I think some people struggle to accept that many others do have just that- without being millionaires or requiring constant recognition.👍

[Stoots]

Lee Pryor broke it down like this:

—
£1millon turnover
£150k vat
£384k 12 cleaners (includes holiday pay NI ect)
£45k 2 office staff
£39k van finance
£30k premises rent and bills
£40k diesel
£12k vehicle maintenance
£12k consumables - poles resin brushes ect ect
£2.5k accountant fees
£30k marketing (to maintain NOT grow)
£255,500.00 gross profit
£48,545 corporation tax at 19%
£206,955.00 Net profit

—

why would you do it when you could have just 1 guy working with you and stay just under VAT paying him 15/20k a year.

Because if you did that (say your worker is self employed) you’d be earning:
Turnover : £85k
Salary of worker : £17.5k
Expenses-Fuel etc (20% of turnover) : £17k
Gross profit : £50,500
Corporation tax (19%) : £9,595
Net Profit : £40,905

£41k is alright I suppose, but which would you rather have? £41k or £207k

I'd rather have 207k but would I rather have 207k and all the stress and struggle that would entail or would I rather invest in another business and have got their much easier that was my point.

But 85k minus 17.5k = 67.5k

Fuel costs for 2 vans would be about £2.5k a year.
2 lots insurance and tax is another 2k
1k accountant

I can't see there being much more than 10k a year total expenses.

So that's 57.5k

Take home would be about 46k in salary/dividends.


Now If the worker does 250 a day x 5 or 1250 a week

That would mean you only had to work 2 days a week to get it up to VAT turnover... to take home 46k

Considering all the stress of a much larger operation that's not a bad lifestyle at all especially when factor in you have 5 free days a week to pursue another business perhaps.

Of course everyone would want the 207k instead but at what cost to your sanity.

[Stoots]

The op didn’t specify what big money to him was. I think anything into six figures is still considered high earning but everything is relative.
What everyone is searching for whether we realise it or not is contentment.

That's the curse of the human condition always searching for contentment and happiness, something very few will ever find and I can say one thing I've never heard anyone say they found it in money.  Yet we all pursue it like its going to bring us an end goal, when no one wants an end goal they just want the journey. How many times have you got something you wanted and then don't want it once you've got it. It's pure madness.

Bit of philosophy for you.

[NWH]

Be careful what you wish for you mean.