[Russ Hawthorne]

Hi,

First of all, does anybody know specially what turns purified water milky? I’ve only had it on two houses, both where I’ve cleaned the neighbours without issue.

Noticed the runoff water was a milky colour and white streaks were left on the window (a second clean sorted it out) . Have been unable to identify the actual cause.

Secondly, a bit of advice if I may. I’m going to be quoting on a school on Monday. Kind of mid range in size as schools go (not actually that helpful I know). Just wondering what kind of price to think about or other things/problems/issues to consider, that cleaning houses don’t usually present.

Many thanks
Russ  ;

[Splash & dash]

It’s the oxidisation of the frames coming off when you clean them , Ime guessing they are older windows

[SB Cleaning]

It’s the oxidisation of the frames coming off when you clean them , Ime guessing they are older windows

You have to scrub and rinse the frames and seals loads, sometimes they come up ok sometimes they can only be cleaned by not touching the top part of frame/seal.

[NWH]

I tell what you have to do and that’s run away from jobs like that they are a nightmare,you can rinse the frames all you like they do the same every time you clean them.

[Splash & dash]

I tell what you have to do and that’s run away from jobs like that they are a nightmare,you can rinse the frames all you like they do the same every time you clean them.

Once the surface oxidation is removed they are fine we have done loads like this needs a thorough scrub rinse first clean then it will be fine

[Russ Hawthorne]

Thanks for the reply’s 👍🏻

[NWH]

You can’t beat cleaning PVC that has hidden seals 9 times out of 10 they sheet as well,like colouring in with a big market pen.

[G Griffin]

I had a row of wine bars and micro pubs with the same sort of frames.
I didn't have the heart to charge them, so I said "the milky bars are on me".

[Dave Willis]

Most schools should have a milk monitor. Give them a really good scrub, should eventually come up prefect.

[Spruce]

 First of all you need a van with a fitted system with plenty of water. 2 of us use about 1000 liters of pure a day to clean the outside of our school. It takes us about 3 days. We do specified internal as well which takes another 2 days.

Nobody can help you with quoting the school because the info you have given is very vague.

In no particular order.

You need to divide the school up into sections and try to estimate a cleaning time for each section. I did it by side and added them all together.

Schools are usually cleaned once a year so they are hard work. Some bird strikes are difficult to remove so if you think a window is going to take a minute to clean it will probably take you 2.
 
If the school is new then include a clause in your quote that you are not responsible for removing builders and paint residue. In fact that's probably a good clause even if it's not a newly built school as their maintenance staff don't always care about getting paint drips on the windows.

I would also try to incorporate a price revision every couple of years at least.

A professionally run school will ask you for a method statement and risk assessment.

Ensure you have an order number before you start work.
Stipulate that any additional work will be quoted for on the day and added to the invoice. You may need an additional order number for additional work.

If you get the job get to know who, how and when you will get paid. What do you have to do to get that invoice in the hands of the right people so you will get paid. Don't be afraid to follow it up.

Our local council pay the school window cleaning bill so we are dealing with another totally different identity. Our council is financial 'bankrupt' so they aren't in a hurry to pay.

They will possibly ask  you to clean during the  school holidays as there shouldn't be children around. After school activities in the holidays can be a problem for you. 

We aren't allowed in the grounds on exam results day and over a long weekend when the town has a music festival and the grounds and car park is turned into a caravan and camping site.

Understand that the facilities manager at the school can't plan to save his life. Try to find out when they are pressure washing the concrete paving around the school. They usually do it after you have cleaned the ground floor windows.
If they are going to do this we have been known to leave the ground floor windows to the last minute.

You will have to work around other trades who will also be working. For example, an electrician repairing outside lighting and the alarm guys doing maintenance on door sensors.

I have a key to the grounds and all the internal gates so we can clean over weekends if we have to.

Here's how things can go wrong when quoting.

Our school has an atrium and an entrance atrium. We find that water gets inside the ali box sections and takes ages to drain out.

What I estimated would take us 1.5 hours actually takes us near 5 hours. The sections are bolted together but not sealed. Some box sections don't even butt up with each other. There are gaps where wash and rinse water gets through.

We have the advantage that the school atrium has a row of 20 very large glass panels. It helps us doing one complete row and then starting at the row underneath.
Spiders and spider webs are a major issue as well.



The same situation applies  with the entrance atrium. That was overestimated as 1/2 an hour. It takes us 2 hours
because of the water runs. Often we have to go back and titivate the glass with a damp cloth and an Unger Fixi clamp on the end of one of our old Teleplus poles. We also do the entrance row by row  and incorporate it with the other 'ordinary' windows we also have to do one row at a time.



Make sure you have liability insurance that covers you for the glass you are working on. One of those glass panes in the atrium exploded a couple of years ago. Thankfully it happened when we hadn't started cleaning yet, but if it had of then we could possibly have been blamed for it.

You will notice that the classroom windows are in 3 sections. As the top window bleeds down onto the window below we have to do them in sections. We wash and rinse the top window pane and do the rest on that side. We then start back at the first window and do the middle pane etc. If we clean them as one we leave streaks on on lower panes where the rinse water has run down.

[Russ Hawthorne]

@spruce many thanks for that comprehensive (see what I did there 😂) reply. I’d have massively under quoted, just to be nice, as it’s a school with next to no funds.

[dazmond]

@spruce many thanks for that comprehensive (see what I did there 😂) reply. I’d have massively under quoted, just to be nice, as it’s a school with next to no funds.

personally i wouldnt bother....i avoid any jobs that take more than a few hours to clean,never mind days!...most schools only want cleaning once or twice a year.....they are hard to price up too.....you dont want to go in too cheap.....also itll take you a while to get paid......i also dont clean inside windows and i bet theyll want them cleaning too

everything a sole trader window cleaner can do without IMO......

[NWH]

I agree I’ve priced schools in the past even my old school it was getting cleaned for around 800-1200 hugely underpriced,I’d walked half way round it with the Burser I knew and I said we may as well forget it I’m already up to about the 1800 quid mark,he said yeah they won’t pay it.
The company they use we’re coming from Watford 3 handed to clean it,waste of time no loyalty no matter what anyone says as soon as the contact you have either leaves-retires or changes positions within the school there’s a massive chance you’ll lose it imo.

[Spruce]

@spruce many thanks for that comprehensive (see what I did there 😂) reply. I’d have massively under quoted, just to be nice, as it’s a school with next to no funds.

TBH with you the majority of government schools have no money now. I would focus on building your business with residential. Yes, in the early days we needed the business but now we don't.

I agree with NWH and Dazmond. My gut is telling me that we won't get it this year and to be honest that's ok with me. Its nice when we get the cheque but the carry-on to get the job completed isn't worth the hassle. We have a loyalty toward the school because the Grandkids are in it, but they have let us down badly this year.

Government said that if a single key worker is employed then they will look after the children. Daughter in law works for the NHS. So my son took them to school on the 23rd March. He got a phone call just before lunch to come and collect the kids as they don't qualify for day care.

He was told that their rules were that both parents had to be key workers to qualify. His job was classed as non essential so he could stay home and look after the children.
If he had a problem with this then take it up with your MP. The headmaster removed 45 children from care. He furloughed all his cleaning and canteen staff and got an outside carer in to look after the remaining 5 children.  No one complained as no one wanted to have their children victimised when they went back to school.

Our grandkids care is normally split between both grandparents over school holidays. We can't do it this year because of the social distancing rules, so son will still be looking after them and I will still be one man down.

[NWH]

Commercial you can earn fantastic money more so 10-15 years ago then it was silly money the pole was newish,domestics will always be the window cleaners banker never take them for granted always show them respect they are the ones that will more likely be there in the end or when things get tight.

[Spruce]

I agree I’ve priced schools in the past even my old school it was getting cleaned for around 800-1200 hugely underpriced,I’d walked half way round it with the Burser I knew and I said we may as well forget it I’m already up to about the 1800 quid mark,he said yeah they won’t pay it.
The company they use we’re coming from Watford 3 handed to clean it,waste of time no loyalty no matter what anyone says as soon as the contact you have either leaves-retires or changes positions within the school there’s a massive chance you’ll lose it imo.

In our area anyway it seems that schools and care homes want it doing for nothing.

As you say a new broom comes in creates problems for everyone. I'm in charge now but its a job he has no experience in. I was told last year that if the teachers want clean windows they can clean them themselves. So the proverbial writing is on the wall.

 

[NWH]

Commercial these days is completely different to how it was years ago they all wanted clean windows,I used to have a job every 6 weeks easy money for a mornings work then a new manager came in said we are getting prices.
They’ve ended up not having the windows cleaned at all for around 3 years they have the same baked on bird poo on 1 window they’ve had since just after I last cleaned them.

[Russ Hawthorne]

Crikey!! Lots of negatives, no positives out of all of those reply’s! Appreciate your comments, I’ll give it a good think. Cheers 

[Spruce]

Crikey!! Lots of negatives, no positives out of all of those reply’s! Appreciate your comments, I’ll give it a good think. Cheers 

Over the years we have done quite a lot of council jobs. Slowly but surely I have lost them to their own team of window cleaners who are council employees.

This school is (or was) my last council paid job. Inside the school grounds is a council office building which also includes a baby care facility focusing on under privileged children. I did that once a month over a weekend for 12 years.

I was given notice a year ago as their own window cleaners now come in and clean them.

Dazmond makes a fair comment when he says he doesn't want a job that takes him more than a few hours.
 
A big job like a school will interrupt your window cleaning schedule with regular customers once you start to get a full schedule.  We educated our customers that we cleaned the school during September and that we would be late with their cleans. Some saw this as a good community service we were providing. Others didn't.

[swanson]

Schools are a nightmare especially if they want it cleaned inside with all the cello tape on the windows
And you have to wait ages for your money.