[Dry Clean]

Just sack him. Hes refusing to work and he's making loads of mistakes.

Just follow your disciplinary procedure if you are worried. Written warning for the mistakes, another for refusing to work.

You cant sack someone for refusing to work during this pandemic and he's covering his backside by saying its being forced to work while being scared that's causing him to make the mistakes, his solicitor is right when he says the op needs to tread carefully.

[Richard iSparkle]

you can sack someone for anything you want.

the question is is it worth the risk.

the risk of sacking him is he could decide to pursue you for unfair dismissal or similar.

the risk of keeping him are

1. it costs you money in the short term with him working badly
2. you loosing customers because of his bad attitude about being in work
2. it does your head in and leaves you angry and frustrated about work etc
3. it has a knock on effect to other employees.

just balance the cost of keeping him against the cost of sacking him.

he'll have 'mates' telling him that he shouldn't be working and that you cant sack him at the moment. when he realises you are serious about it he may well change his tune.

to be honest, i'd be most likely to follow the standard disciplinary procedure and sack the bloke unless he quickly changes his attitude and performance.

personally im not that interested in solicitors and their opinions. solicitors are risk averse and its their job to tell you what the risks are etc. my wife worked in HR for years and she's the same. fortunately i have her friends who are in HR and one of them I can have direct conversations like... 'so i need to get rid of this person... how do i do that the safest way...'

your an entrepreneur. we are risk takers.

[Dry Clean]

Richard Iv a mate who got £40k for unfair dismissal, anyone of us can get emotional and angry when being taking for a mug by an employee or other, it takes a solicitor to keep us focused and to tell us how it is.

[Richard iSparkle]

Richard Iv a mate who got £40k for unfair dismissal, anyone of us can get emotional and angry when being taking for a mug by an employee or other, it takes a solicitor to keep us focused and to tell us how it is.

yeh there's a risk for sure.

that sounds pretty extreme at 40000 so id be really interested to see that details.

i'd still probably sack the guy but like i say its about balancing the risks.

this sort of thing does my head in. sometimes you have to show you'll have the fight

[Arnold Palmer]

Richard Iv a mate who got £40k for unfair dismissal, anyone of us can get emotional and angry when being taking for a mug by an employee or other, it takes a solicitor to keep us focused and to tell us how it is.

yeh there's a risk for sure.

that sounds pretty extreme at 40000 so id be really interested to see that details.

i'd still probably sack the guy but like i say its about balancing the risks.

this sort of thing does my head in. sometimes you have to show you'll have the fight

To avoid unfair dismissal you'd probably need to suspend, on full pay, while you carry out an investigation. Have meetings, which would be difficult and as always, if there's an argument, the deck is stacked in their favour.

Furlough him on 80% for three weeks. Then decide what to do in three weeks time. Your HR person might be right, maybe not. I'd put my money on there being way bigger fish to fry as far as HMRC go, it's 80% of one employed window cleaners wage, the budget for this runs into the hundreds of billions.

It's going to cost you either way IMO, this is the best option for everyone involved.

[Ooooooog]

Don’t think you can furlough someone and then get someone else in to do their work.

Run through your Covid risk assessment with him again,  in detail and explain why it is safe.
You can’t start pandering to someone’s anxieties.

[Arnold Palmer]

Don’t think you can furlough someone and then get someone else in to do their work.

Run through your Covid risk assessment with him again,  in detail and explain why it is safe.
You can’t start pandering to someone’s anxieties.

What happens if he catches it?

[Ooooooog]

Don’t think you can furlough someone and then get someone else in to do their work.

Run through your Covid risk assessment with him again,  in detail and explain why it is safe.
You can’t start pandering to someone’s anxieties.

What happens if he catches it?

If he implements the procedures and uses the PPE, then there’s little risk.

What if someone crashes into him at work?
There’s always a risk of something happening.

[Richard iSparkle]

We’re all gonna catch it

Nobody can know or prove  where they caught it from, but if he’s following safe working,

window cleaning, in a van on your own, with social distancing  is low risk.

Going to a shop or catching a bus is high risk

[Arnold Palmer]

Don’t think you can furlough someone and then get someone else in to do their work.

Run through your Covid risk assessment with him again,  in detail and explain why it is safe.
You can’t start pandering to someone’s anxieties.

What happens if he catches it?

If he implements the procedures and uses the PPE, then there’s little risk.

What if someone crashes into him at work?
There’s always a risk of something happening.

I was more concerned about the 5-7 days that he's wandering around your customers unaware he has it.

[G Griffin]

Richard Iv a mate who got £40k for unfair dismissal, anyone of us can get emotional and angry when being taking for a mug by an employee or other, it takes a solicitor to keep us focused and to tell us how it is.

Wasn't he one of the princes in the Tower?

[Dry Clean]

Richard Iv a mate who got £40k for unfair dismissal, anyone of us can get emotional and angry when being taking for a mug by an employee or other, it takes a solicitor to keep us focused and to tell us how it is.

Wasn't he one of the princes in the Tower?

No this was long before that, he was a union rep though, I'm sure you remember those Griff, you weren't always a Tory. lol

[Ooooooog]

Don’t think you can furlough someone and then get someone else in to do their work.

Run through your Covid risk assessment with him again,  in detail and explain why it is safe.
You can’t start pandering to someone’s anxieties.

What happens if he catches it?

If he implements the procedures and uses the PPE, then there’s little risk.

What if someone crashes into him at work?
There’s always a risk of something happening.

I was more concerned about the 5-7 days that he's wandering around your customers unaware he has it.

Issue a mask daily, gloves for each property, even over shoe things if you like.
Clean all vans and kit with hot soapy (soupy?) water every morning. Email all invoices, or defer payment for a couple of months?
If customers don’t want you there, then tell them you’ll be round when they’re ready.

[Den68]

Don’t think you can furlough someone and then get someone else in to do their work.

Run through your Covid risk assessment with him again,  in detail and explain why it is safe.
You can’t start pandering to someone’s anxieties.

What happens if he catches it?

If he implements the procedures and uses the PPE, then there’s little risk.

What if someone crashes into him at work?
There’s always a risk of something happening.

I was more concerned about the 5-7 days that he's wandering around your customers unaware he has it.

. Soupy  your  signature is great 😂

[AuRavelling79]

What was this employee like before this CV stuff?

If he was a good solid worker then I'd cut him some slack and say he must work with PPE and he can be very  careful. But there are a few things I don't get.

I find I am a bit slower in this CV situation  (taking precautions, more careful about hygiene and payment slips engaging with yakky customers, taking a little longer on houses which are normally unoccupied but people are about) but no less effective in quality of work.

If he has been a good worker and is not in the "vulnerable" category  I would call him in and have a discussion and tell him ...

1. I value his work until this point.
2. Being scared is no reason not to go to work as a socially distancing window cleaner. If he goes to the shops or out for exercise then solo WC should be fine. (one of my daughters works in a care home and one works in a supermarket and WC is far far less risky to the point of almost zero IMO)
3. I expect him to work and do a good job like his fellow employees who are willing to work. If there is any reasonable thing he needs for "protection" (he already has soap and water on board I presume?) like mask/gloves I would supply it.
4. The next time I receive a valid complaint from a customer will result in a disciplinary escalation.

If he refuses to work after the above then I would say I'm sorry but by keeping you on I am putting the whole business in jeopardy - you and I will have to part company - get your things and leave and I will forward you any owed money on payday.

[NWH]

At the end of the day if he wants to take it further that’s up to him but most people wouldn’t,first time he did something wrong he’d get a warning second time for something small he’d get another-written then some people would make his life miserable enough he’d go on his own.
If he went of his own accord you have no come back do you,just saying what some other people would do I couldn’t be that cruel 😉

[Slacky]

Don’t think you can furlough someone and then get someone else in to do their work.

Run through your Covid risk assessment with him again,  in detail and explain why it is safe.
You can’t start pandering to someone’s anxieties.

What happens if he catches it?

He'd have to prove it was caught whilst at work and as a result of his employers negligence.

Sack him.

[Slacky]

Don’t think you can furlough someone and then get someone else in to do their work.

Run through your Covid risk assessment with him again,  in detail and explain why it is safe.
You can’t start pandering to someone’s anxieties.

What happens if he catches it?

If he implements the procedures and uses the PPE, then there’s little risk.

What if someone crashes into him at work?
There’s always a risk of something happening.

I was more concerned about the 5-7 days that he's wandering around your customers unaware he has it.

He's not going round the customers properties French kissing them is he?

[G Griffin]

Richard Iv a mate who got £40k for unfair dismissal, anyone of us can get emotional and angry when being taking for a mug by an employee or other, it takes a solicitor to keep us focused and to tell us how it is.

Wasn't he one of the princes in the Tower?

No this was long before that, he was a union rep though, I'm sure you remember those Griff, you weren't always a Tory. lol

As much as I respect the Tory policy on the grant(s), I can also see through it.
It's not free money and they're not doing it for us, the window cleaners. It's an economic measure that will work, hopefully.
I don't see it as too good to be true. I see it as good and true.
There's no panic in Griffin Towers.

[Smudger]

Any help....

The government’s position is also consistent with the view currently being taken by ACAS, whose recent guidance (https://www.acas.org.uk/coronavirus) states:

“Some people might feel they do not want to go to work if they’re afraid of catching coronavirus. This could particularly be the case for those who are at higher risk.

An employer should listen to any concerns staff may have and should take steps to protect everyone. For example, they could offer extra car parking where possible so that people can avoid using public transport.

If an employee still does not want to go in, they may be able to arrange with their employer to take the time off as holiday or unpaid leave. The employer does not have to agree to this.

If an employee refuses to attend work without a valid reason, it could result in disciplinary action.”

It is worth noting, however, employees’ general right not to not to be subjected to any detriment or dismissal for leaving or refusing to return to a workplace where an employee is in danger which he/she “reasonably believed to be serious and imminent and which he could not reasonably have been expected to avert” under the ERA 1996.