[jo5hm4n]

Okay so first of all i have contacted pure freedom several times to try and resolve the issue.  Still not successful so will get in contact with them again, however i thought i would post on here first to see if any of you guys have ever had similiar problems!


System: 650L Delivery Only Twin Pump/Controller Single Battery system, no split relay, charged every night.  Shurflo Pumps, pure freedom controllers, 110A Leisure Battery.  4 Year old system installation by Pure Freedom.


So the problem started about 3 months ago when the battery voltage seemed low, and one of the controllers kept turning off randomly when in use, so i thought it was a wiring issue.  Then however i kept checking the Voltage and it was reading between 11.6-12.2, which im told is very low!  Should be reading about 12.4-12.8 for a normal healthy battery?

The battery is 1 year old.  I thought, right maybe it is the pumps that are the problem?  They hadn't been changed for 4 years and i wondered if they were drawing more power.  So we changed the pumps.  This did increase the flow, and decrease the time it took for battery to go low, but it still did not fix the problem at all.

So i thought right its got to be either the wiring or the battery?  Ordered a replacement battery and immediately the battery was reading much higher again 12.5/12.6.  This was 4 weeks ago.  I also replaced the inline fuse and wiring on one of the flow controllers to see if that effected things.

Well that was 4 weeks ago and things seemed okay.  The battery voltage wasn't perfect but it was reading 12.6 or higher most mornings after a full charge, and my worker said it was lasting all day no issues at all as it should be.

Last friday after a day of work i checked his system and it was reading 11.9 when not in use, which to me i am pretty sure is far too low even after a 6 hour work day for one operator.  So didnt worry too  much and left it.

My employee went out Monday all day no problems, however Monday night he forgot to put the system on charge(this is rare he does this).

So he went out all day Tuesday without system being charged.  He lasted until 3pm and with about an hours work left to go his system died on him, both controllers turned off completely.  Now this i can understand as its happened to me before 2 years ago with another van system that was working perfectly fine.

Anyway so he charges the system last night, and he said he checked the voltage before charging it and it was reading 7.5???

He charged the system for well over 12 hours last night, and this morning hes gone to turn it on and the voltage is only reading 11.9 not in use.

So i popped over to see what the issue was.  By the time i got there 15 minutes later the reading was now at 11.7 not in use.  After talking to him for about 15 minutes about why this could be happening the voltage was now reading 11.3 not in use.


So what the hell could this issue be?  I've changed both pumps, the battery, some of the wiring from 1 controller to battery.  What else could be doing this?  Could it be the C Tek Charger i use?  Is it knackered?  Is the wiring knackered?  Needs all replacing?  I just don't know what to do, but i can't believe that 2 batteries back to back are faulty knackered it doesn't add up.

Its a simple system so im baffled to what is wrong here.

Please help if you can 

[Simon Trapani]

I’d recheck all connections. Maybe some are hidden under sheathing or similar.

[P @ F]

I’m leaning toward a battery fault , either that or you are taking too much from the battery before it gets a recharge .

I use a 110 amp , I consume about 35 amps a day , it then gets put on charge when I get home , it’s usually fully charged by bedtime , it’s then switched off and rested until the morning , in the morning it always reads 13.2

[Slash]

Yes,spunds like a wiring issue.

[Spruce]

Okay so first of all i have contacted pure freedom several times to try and resolve the issue.  Still not successful so will get in contact with them again, however i thought i would post on here first to see if any of you guys have ever had similiar problems!


System: 650L Delivery Only Twin Pump/Controller Single Battery system, no split relay, charged every night.  Shurflo Pumps, pure freedom controllers, 110A Leisure Battery.  4 Year old system installation by Pure Freedom.


So the problem started about 3 months ago when the battery voltage seemed low, and one of the controllers kept turning off randomly when in use, so i thought it was a wiring issue.  Then however i kept checking the Voltage and it was reading between 11.6-12.2, which im told is very low!  Should be reading about 12.4-12.8 for a normal healthy battery?

The battery is 1 year old.  I thought, right maybe it is the pumps that are the problem?  They hadn't been changed for 4 years and i wondered if they were drawing more power.  So we changed the pumps.  This did increase the flow, and decrease the time it took for battery to go low, but it still did not fix the problem at all.

So i thought right its got to be either the wiring or the battery?  Ordered a replacement battery and immediately the battery was reading much higher again 12.5/12.6.  This was 4 weeks ago.  I also replaced the inline fuse and wiring on one of the flow controllers to see if that effected things.

Well that was 4 weeks ago and things seemed okay.  The battery voltage wasn't perfect but it was reading 12.6 or higher most mornings after a full charge, and my worker said it was lasting all day no issues at all as it should be.

Last friday after a day of work i checked his system and it was reading 11.9 when not in use, which to me i am pretty sure is far too low even after a 6 hour work day for one operator.  So didnt worry too  much and left it.

My employee went out Monday all day no problems, however Monday night he forgot to put the system on charge(this is rare he does this).

So he went out all day Tuesday without system being charged.  He lasted until 3pm and with about an hours work left to go his system died on him, both controllers turned off completely.  Now this i can understand as its happened to me before 2 years ago with another van system that was working perfectly fine.

Anyway so he charges the system last night, and he said he checked the voltage before charging it and it was reading 7.5???

He charged the system for well over 12 hours last night, and this morning hes gone to turn it on and the voltage is only reading 11.9 not in use.

So i popped over to see what the issue was.  By the time i got there 15 minutes later the reading was now at 11.7 not in use.  After talking to him for about 15 minutes about why this could be happening the voltage was now reading 11.3 not in use.


So what the hell could this issue be?  I've changed both pumps, the battery, some of the wiring from 1 controller to battery.  What else could be doing this?  Could it be the C Tek Charger i use?  Is it knackered?  Is the wiring knackered?  Needs all replacing?  I just don't know what to do, but i can't believe that 2 batteries back to back are faulty knackered it doesn't add up.

Its a simple system so im baffled to what is wrong here.

Please help if you can 

My gut is going with p&f's response.

I would check to see what charge your ctek charger is putting out first when connected directly to your battery.
You need to test this at the battery with a multimeter using the direct current volt settings. This must be tested at the battery terminals. Forget the controllers read out atm.

Ideally you should see a charge voltage of around 13.9 or higher voltage. If it's lower then suspect the battery charger.
Then put the charger onto the van's starter battery. If it shows a higher voltage then the charger looks ok and focus must go back to the battery.

There are some leisure batteries that are class c. These are useless for window cleaners. You need to look at class b.
On the ncc verified leisure battery scheme report a class c leisure battery from Halfords is only good for 80 discharge cycles.

[jo5hm4n]

I’d recheck all connections. Maybe some are hidden under sheathing or similar.

Don't think it can be the connections because i checked the voltage between the battery and the controller and it was almost exactly the same.  The issue seems to be either with the charger or the battery itself.

[jo5hm4n]

I’m leaning toward a battery fault , either that or you are taking too much from the battery before it gets a recharge .

I use a 110 amp , I consume about 35 amps a day , it then gets put on charge when I get home , it’s usually fully charged by bedtime , it’s then switched off and rested until the morning , in the morning it always reads 13.2

Could you do me a massive favour please?  Could you check your voltage at the battery after its been charged, but also whilst its being charged to see how much the charger is actually providing to the battery?

The battery gets recharged every day normally without any issues for 4 years so i dont think its that.

I think its a battery fault too.  I checked 3 different c Tek Chargers today and all of them read 12.6 on the battery whilst connected to power.  This should be alot higher.  I checked another slightly dud battery ive got and that was reading 13.0 with the same 3 chargers straight away.  So i think the issue is with the battery not the charger.

Pure freedom have said they will send a replacement battery out, but they have no idea why a month old battery is only showing 12.6V when connected to charger and mains.

[jo5hm4n]

My gut is going with p&f's response.

I would check to see what charge your ctek charger is putting out first when connected directly to your battery.
You need to test this at the battery with a multimeter using the direct current volt settings. This must be tested at the battery terminals. Forget the controllers read out atm.

Ideally you should see a charge voltage of around 13.9 or higher voltage. If it's lower then suspect the battery charger.
But put the charger onto the van's starter battery. If it shows a higher voltage then the charger looks ok and focus must go back to the battery.

There are some leisure batteries that are class c. These are useless for window cleaners. You need to look at class b.
On the ncc verified leisure battery scheme report a class c leisure battery from Halfords is only good for 80 discharge cycles.

So i checked 3 different C Tek Chargers today and read exactly the same reading on the battery terminal of 12.6 when charging.  I connected the same chargers to a different battery(another slightly dud one) and this was reading 13.0 when charging.

So the fact that the chargers are all consistently the same surely the problem must be with the battery.

I just find it odd that a battery less than a month old is showing a charging voltage of less than another battery which is a year old(also dud).

Pure Freedom are sending me a replacement battery.

I am not sure what class the battery is, but its the highest recommended one from PureFreedom.

This is the battery i use - https://purefreedom.co.uk/platinum-110ah-leisure-battery.html

Has worked spot on for the last 4 years, only been having problems last 3 months with 3 different batteries!!  Weird!!

I'm going to redo all the wiring when this replacement battery arrives

[Scrimble]

what split charge relay are you using? if you are not using one then you should be.

could be a long list of things, you are the best person to diagnose as you are there, check and re check everything, could even be a corroded fuse or your calibration settings too high so the pumps are drawing a lot of power

[jo5hm4n]

what split charge relay are you using? if you are not using one then you should be.

could be a long list of things, you are the best person to diagnose as you are there, check and re check everything, could even be a corroded fuse or your calibration settings too high so the pumps are drawing a lot of power

Not using Split charge relay and happy with our system without one for now.  What should Calibration settings be on?  Standard Pure Freedom Controller.

Thanks

[Simon Trapani]

My gut is going with p&f's response.

I would check to see what charge your ctek charger is putting out first when connected directly to your battery.
You need to test this at the battery with a multimeter using the direct current volt settings. This must be tested at the battery terminals. Forget the controllers read out atm.

Ideally you should see a charge voltage of around 13.9 or higher voltage. If it's lower then suspect the battery charger.
But put the charger onto the van's starter battery. If it shows a higher voltage then the charger looks ok and focus must go back to the battery.

There are some leisure batteries that are class c. These are useless for window cleaners. You need to look at class b.
On the ncc verified leisure battery scheme report a class c leisure battery from Halfords is only good for 80 discharge cycles.

So i checked 3 different C Tek Chargers today and read exactly the same reading on the battery terminal of 12.6 when charging.  I connected the same chargers to a different battery(another slightly dud one) and this was reading 13.0 when charging.

So the fact that the chargers are all consistently the same surely the problem must be with the battery.

I just find it odd that a battery less than a month old is showing a charging voltage of less than another battery which is a year old(also dud).

Pure Freedom are sending me a replacement battery.

I am not sure what class the battery is, but its the highest recommended one from PureFreedom.

This is the battery i use - https://purefreedom.co.uk/platinum-110ah-leisure-battery.html

Has worked spot on for the last 4 years, only been having problems last 3 months with 3 different batteries!!  Weird!!

I'm going to redo all the wiring when this replacement battery arrives

You need to change just one thing at a time. It's a process of elimination. Eventually you will get to the bottom of it.

[jo5hm4n]

I have changed everything except the charger, and the wiring.  Im losing patience now, its cost my worker 2 days income which could of easily been avoided if i just went chicken oriental and got the whole lot done ages ago.  Downtime can be more costly then replacement parts!

[Spruce]

According to the NCC verified leisure battery report this battery is a class c and is good for 70 discharge and recharge cycles. And they aren't even full discharge cycles - only to 50% DOD (depth of discharge)

https://www.thencc.org.uk/downloads/Leisure_Battery_Register_Website_November_2019.pdf

Its not a quality battery and in my opinion totally not suitable for window cleaning. That's why you are getting so many failures. Tell P/F to send out a quality battery.

[P @ F]

I will second the above , I used to use those batteries in 85 amp size , I was only paying about £50 a pop so that’s the sign that they are not the best out there .

That battery that is in current use , is it running 2 controllers and 2 pumps all the time ?
Do you have power reels ?

I’m still going with a cheap battery that has been used beyond safe discharge levels !

I will check the details you ask for in a mo , the battery has been at rest over night so I can guarantee that it will be around the 13.2 mark

[andyM]

According to the NCC verified leisure battery report this battery is a class c and is good for 70 discharge and recharge cycles. And they aren't even full discharge cycles - only to 50% DOD (depth of discharge)

https://www.thencc.org.uk/downloads/Leisure_Battery_Register_Website_November_2019.pdf

Its not a quality battery and in my opinion totally not suitable for window cleaning. That's why you are getting so many failures. Tell P/F to send out a quality battery.

I wouldn't take that information as gospel though Spruce.
I've been using a Yuasa Halfords hlb681 battery for more than 2 years and it gets charged after every working day so has well in excess of the 85 charging cycles that chart suggests.

[P @ F]

OK so just got those figures you wanted , I am using a Numax XV31MF 105 amp and am charging with a £40 Halfords Advanced fully automatic charger .

Battery charged and rested ......13.1V
Charger at full supply....................14.7V
Charger on maintain......................13.7V

[Jonny 87]

What Ctek charger are you using?

It will be mxs. (Something).

Also, if your worker is perhaps forgetting more than he says to charge the battery this could be the problem too.

[P @ F]

What you are saying about your Ctek makes sense , as it senses the battery getting full it then lowers the charging voltage .
If the battery is shot the charger thinks it’s full and lowers the charge rate , so your battery never actually charges due to the memory of it being destroyed .
I have an 85 amp Numax that behaves exactly the same , mind you I was using it to start the van and run a pump and diesel heater , it lasted 1 year and never had a bench charge , the only charge it got was from the alternator and 120w of solar

[P @ F]

That being said I am Numax through and through now , £96 for a 105 amp is peanuts

[jo5hm4n]

What Ctek charger are you using?

It will be mxs. (Something).

Also, if your worker is perhaps forgetting more than he says to charge the battery this could be the problem too.

Ctek MXs5.

No its not that because before "Corona" i checked that the van was on charge every night before leaving the office.