[Missing Link]

China showed that a strict lockdown can stop this thing dead but we are not playing the same game.

It didn't stop it dead; it's like 'whack-a-mole':

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-02/chinese-county-back-under-lockdown-after-infection-re-emerges

You lock down one place and it gets better only to pop up somewhere else.

Lots scoffed at herd immunity but they couldn't come up with something better.

I think you're right though; the government's strategy is still herd immunity, it's just they haven't - yet - got the balls to say it.

[Stoots]

China showed that a strict lockdown can stop this thing dead but we are not playing the same game.

It didn't stop it dead; it's like 'whack-a-mole':

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-02/chinese-county-back-under-lockdown-after-infection-re-emerges

You lock down one place and it gets better only to pop up somewhere else.

Lots scoffed at herd immunity but they couldn't come up with something better.

I think you're right though; the government's strategy is still herd immunity, it's just they haven't - yet - got the balls to say it.

Yeh, I get that, a strict lockdown does halt it but what happens when it's released is a different story and why the gov haven't gone that route.

Bottom line is they want us to get it, just not all at once, at a rate the NHS can cope with. Or try to cope with.

I personally think this thing will be dragged out slowly for a year, until we get a vaccine the best hope is just to slow it whilst trying to keep the economy alive.

[simon w]

One of Britain's most flamboyant aristocrats has sadly died of covid this weekend Lord Bath Mr Longleat   Safari Park died in Bath Royal on Saturday.

[G Griffin]

I don't think the government are using herd immunity. I don't think they know enough about immunity to it to carry it out. 
That's why we are in lockdown; though it could be stricter.

[Richard Groves]

Wearing mask to work.?.... seriously ? ..... What sort of message do you think that would send to a customer or anyone who saw you out.?

Absolutely agree!  I know myself that I have explained why I am still working in a text to my clients and on my facebook business page.  Also my instagram business page!
Explaining how low risk my job is in actually speaking/touching people.     So if we start wearing masks to work, we might as well close down and stay in!

They're saying that masks help stop you spreading it, not catching it.

Ok whatever, so by wearing one in that case, you are almost admitting/sowing a seed of doubt to the customer that you have an infection or possibly have one without knowing for sure but not wanting to risk it. In either case you should stay home and away from people and off the streets.

I'd wear one in a busy supermarket where I was concerned of a 2 meter rule not being viable, but I've so far avoided that by using smaller local stores outside peak hours.
All week I've seen people walking along the seafront self distanced more than adequately from others with these stupid unnecessary masks on. As if fresh air is somehow detrimental to their well being. Its ridiculous and over the top. Even seen people wearing them whilst driving their own cars !

[Arnold Palmer]

Wearing mask to work.?.... seriously ? ..... What sort of message do you think that would send to a customer or anyone who saw you out.?

Absolutely agree!  I know myself that I have explained why I am still working in a text to my clients and on my facebook business page.  Also my instagram business page!
Explaining how low risk my job is in actually speaking/touching people.     So if we start wearing masks to work, we might as well close down and stay in!

They're saying that masks help stop you spreading it, not catching it.

Ok whatever, so by wearing one in that case, you are almost admitting/sowing a seed of doubt to the customer that you have an infection or possibly have one without knowing for sure but not wanting to risk it. In either case you should stay home and away from people and off the streets.

I'd wear one in a busy supermarket where I was concerned of a 2 meter rule not being viable, but I've so far avoided that by using smaller local stores outside peak hours.
All week I've seen people walking along the seafront self distanced more than adequately from others with these stupid unnecessary masks on. As if fresh air is somehow detrimental to their well being. Its ridiculous and over the top. Even seen people wearing them whilst driving their own cars !

That's not how I would look at it. It just shows that you are taking the virus and the risks of you spreading it seriously.

Let's be clear I've never worn one and I don't have any, yet. If and when we go back to work we'll be wearing them.

[Richard Groves]

Wearing mask to work.?.... seriously ? ..... What sort of message do you think that would send to a customer or anyone who saw you out.?

Absolutely agree!  I know myself that I have explained why I am still working in a text to my clients and on my facebook business page.  Also my instagram business page!
Explaining how low risk my job is in actually speaking/touching people.     So if we start wearing masks to work, we might as well close down and stay in!

They're saying that masks help stop you spreading it, not catching it.

Ok whatever, so by wearing one in that case, you are almost admitting/sowing a seed of doubt to the customer that you have an infection or possibly have one without knowing for sure but not wanting to risk it. In either case you should stay home and away from people and off the streets.

I'd wear one in a busy supermarket where I was concerned of a 2 meter rule not being viable, but I've so far avoided that by using smaller local stores outside peak hours.
All week I've seen people walking along the seafront self distanced more than adequately from others with these stupid unnecessary masks on. As if fresh air is somehow detrimental to their well being. Its ridiculous and over the top. Even seen people wearing them whilst driving their own cars !

That's not how I would look at it. It just shows that you are taking the virus and the risks of you spreading it seriously.

Let's be clear I've never worn one and I don't have any, yet. If and when we go back to work we'll be wearing them.

Its not how you would look at it , its how your customers would surely ?

[Arnold Palmer]

Wearing mask to work.?.... seriously ? ..... What sort of message do you think that would send to a customer or anyone who saw you out.?

Absolutely agree!  I know myself that I have explained why I am still working in a text to my clients and on my facebook business page.  Also my instagram business page!
Explaining how low risk my job is in actually speaking/touching people.     So if we start wearing masks to work, we might as well close down and stay in!

They're saying that masks help stop you spreading it, not catching it.

Ok whatever, so by wearing one in that case, you are almost admitting/sowing a seed of doubt to the customer that you have an infection or possibly have one without knowing for sure but not wanting to risk it. In either case you should stay home and away from people and off the streets.

I'd wear one in a busy supermarket where I was concerned of a 2 meter rule not being viable, but I've so far avoided that by using smaller local stores outside peak hours.
All week I've seen people walking along the seafront self distanced more than adequately from others with these stupid unnecessary masks on. As if fresh air is somehow detrimental to their well being. Its ridiculous and over the top. Even seen people wearing them whilst driving their own cars !

That's not how I would look at it. It just shows that you are taking the virus and the risks of you spreading it seriously.

Let's be clear I've never worn one and I don't have any, yet. If and when we go back to work we'll be wearing them.

Its not how you would look at it , its how your customers would surely ?

So what do you think about your postie wearing gloves?

[Missing Link]

I don't think the government are using herd immunity. I don't think they know enough about immunity to it to carry it out. 
That's why we are in lockdown; though it could be stricter.

Of course they are because they can't keep us in lock down for 12 to 18 months till a vaccine is created.  Trump puts it well 'The cure cannot be worse than the disease'.  A 12 to 18 month lock down would kill hundreds of thousands of people through the loss of GDP.

So the plan looks like:

1.  Create extra capacity in the NHS for the increased demand (think Nightingale hospitals).
2.  Shield the high risk (over 70s and those with underlying health problems that puts them at specific risk).
3.  Lock down to flatten the curve (so that No 1 can be implemented).

Unleash the Chinese plague on everyone else.

There might be variants of the above plan, but that's the principle of the plan.  It's just that government hasn't the balls to tell us.

[JackieW]

''1.  Create extra capacity in the NHS for the increased demand (think Nightingale hospitals).
2.  Shield the high risk (over 70s and those with underlying health problems that puts them at specific risk).
3.  Lock down to flatten the curve (so that No 1 can be implemented).

Unleash the Chinese plague on everyone else.''


I have to say I totally agree with this.
That is the only way out as far as I can see. Otherwise this will either continue for months and months or else it'll just return and we have to go through this again and again.

[Missing Link]

I have to say I totally agree with this.

It will increase the possibility that granddad may die a little before his time. 

The other choice is to wreck the economy so badly that your kids will be poorer throughout the whole of their lives and have a shorter life expectancy.

People keep telling me that life isn't easy.

[Richard Groves]

Wearing mask to work.?.... seriously ? ..... What sort of message do you think that would send to a customer or anyone who saw you out.?

Absolutely agree!  I know myself that I have explained why I am still working in a text to my clients and on my facebook business page.  Also my instagram business page!
Explaining how low risk my job is in actually speaking/touching people.     So if we start wearing masks to work, we might as well close down and stay in!

They're saying that masks help stop you spreading it, not catching it.

Ok whatever, so by wearing one in that case, you are almost admitting/sowing a seed of doubt to the customer that you have an infection or possibly have one without knowing for sure but not wanting to risk it. In either case you should stay home and away from people and off the streets.

I'd wear one in a busy supermarket where I was concerned of a 2 meter rule not being viable, but I've so far avoided that by using smaller local stores outside peak hours.
All week I've seen people walking along the seafront self distanced more than adequately from others with these stupid unnecessary masks on. As if fresh air is somehow detrimental to their well being. Its ridiculous and over the top. Even seen people wearing them whilst driving their own cars !

That's not how I would look at it. It just shows that you are taking the virus and the risks of you spreading it seriously.

Let's be clear I've never worn one and I don't have any, yet. If and when we go back to work we'll be wearing them.

Its not how you would look at it , its how your customers would surely ?

So what do you think about your postie wearing gloves?

I've no problem with them wearing gloves ( I have too ). I wouldn't have a problem with them wearing a mask either if it came to it but they are key workers doing an essential job. People can argue this until the cows come home but the window cleaning of domestic houses is non essential. IF it came to it and anybody outside in public was required to wear a mask, I wouldn't be working and I think the majority of customers would feel the same.

[G Griffin]

I don't think the government are using herd immunity. I don't think they know enough about immunity to it to carry it out. 
That's why we are in lockdown; though it could be stricter.

Of course they are because they can't keep us in lock down for 12 to 18 months till a vaccine is created.  Trump puts it well 'The cure cannot be worse than the disease'.  A 12 to 18 month lock down would kill hundreds of thousands of people through the loss of GDP.

So the plan looks like:

1.  Create extra capacity in the NHS for the increased demand (think Nightingale hospitals).
2.  Shield the high risk (over 70s and those with underlying health problems that puts them at specific risk).
3.  Lock down to flatten the curve (so that No 1 can be implemented).

Unleash the Chinese plague on everyone else.

There might be variants of the above plan, but that's the principle of the plan.  It's just that government hasn't the balls to tell us.

I disagree with you.
For herd immunity to work you need to know about the immunity or have a vaccine and they don't.
I might be a few weeks behind on this and I might be wrong but I don't think either of the above apply.

[Missing Link]

People can argue this until the cows come home but the window cleaning of domestic houses is non essential.

My neighbour wanted some bread and milk to go with his morning paper the other day.  He's in his 70s and he has this for three months.

I didn't say, is that newspaper really essential?  Bread?  Milk?  Haven't you any of that pasta left I bought you?  What about those four tins of beans I got you on Tuesday?  Have you really eaten all that?  Is this really essential shopping?

Why not have some pasta and beans?

Instead, I just went to the shop and bought him what he wanted.

What the government really want is to stop the bell-thronks who were out in their droves this weekend, in parks and at the beach, not doing social distancing and sunbathing.

[Missing Link]

I disagree with you.
For herd immunity to work you need to know about the immunity or have a vaccine and they don't.
I might be a few weeks behind on this and I might be wrong but I don't think either of the above apply.

They know how herd immunity works.

And you don't need a vaccine to create it either.  Before my time, but in the 50s and into the 60s mummies would have Measles parties where one kid got the measles and they'd get all the other kids to play with them.

Measels when you're a kid is not a problem.  Measles when you're older is.

And this created a herd immunity too.  No vaccine required, but obviously a vaccine is a better answer.

Your granny knew about this stuff back in the 1950s.

And since we don't have a vaccine, what other options are there, other than herd immunity?

[G Griffin]

I disagree with you.
For herd immunity to work you need to know about the immunity or have a vaccine and they don't.
I might be a few weeks behind on this and I might be wrong but I don't think either of the above apply.

They know how herd immunity works.

And you don't need a vaccine to create it either.  Before my time, but in the 50s and into the 60s mummies would have Measles parties where one kid got the measles and they'd get all the other kids to play with them.

Measels when you're a kid is not a problem.  Measles when you're older is.

And this created a herd immunity too.  No vaccine required, but obviously a vaccine is a better answer.

Your granny knew about this stuff back in the 1950s.

And since we don't have a vaccine, what other options are there, other than herd immunity?

They knew more about measles than they do coronavirus. They don't know much about immunity to it.
It's a new virus.
Are you saying that this lockdown is in preparation for herd immunity?

[Missing Link]

They knew more about measles than they do coronavirus. They don't know much about immunity to it.
It's a new virus.
Are you saying that this lockdown is in preparation for herd immunity?

I've explained exactly what I think the lockdown is for.   See my above post.

And they'll know enough about herd immunity and the coronavirus. 

But again, I'm interested to hear what you think is an alternative exit strategy?

Lock everyone down for 12 to 18 months?  Or repeated lockdowns?  I believe Trump to be speaking the truth when he says the cure cannot be worse than the illness.

[CleanClear]

''1.  Create extra capacity in the NHS for the increased demand (think Nightingale hospitals).
2.  Shield the high risk (over 70s and those with underlying health problems that puts them at specific risk).
3.  Lock down to flatten the curve (so that No 1 can be implemented).

Unleash the Chinese plague on everyone else.''


I have to say I totally agree with this.
That is the only way out as far as I can see. Otherwise this will either continue for months and months or else it'll just return and we have to go through this again and again.

Just have to hope every other Country in the World follows suit then, or it won't work unless everyone does it.

[G Griffin]

They knew more about measles than they do coronavirus. They don't know much about immunity to it.
It's a new virus.
Are you saying that this lockdown is in preparation for herd immunity?

I've explained exactly what I think the lockdown is for.   See my above post.

And they'll know enough about herd immunity and the coronavirus. 

But again, I'm interested to hear what you think is an alternative exit strategy?

Lock everyone down for 12 to 18 months?  Or repeated lockdowns?  I believe Trump to be speaking the truth when he says the cure cannot be worse than the illness.

Are you saying that they know enough about coronavirus immunity to use herd immunity? I didn't think they did but if you know better, I'm eager to learn.
I don't have an alternative exit strategy. Why would I have?
As for the cure being worse than the illness, it depends on how you measure that. And even Trump has had a rethink, so I don't think that it his truth anymore.

[Missing Link]

Just have to hope every other Country in the World follows suit then, or it won't work unless everyone does it.

Maybe the world won't get a choice in the matter?

And remember, foreign travel is a fairly recent thing.  Before vaccinations if you went to emigrate to a foreign country you'd be put in some kind of holding facility (Statten Island in the USA for example) for a period of time and these holding facilities have grave yards full of those who ended up with some kind of plague.

We're also very lucky living in a first world country.  The continent of Africa, India, much of SE Asia; these countries are going to be hit hardest.  In India they've something daft like four ventilators per million people.  Four, ffs.

They'll get herd immunity before us, and not in a good way.