[֍Winp®oClean֍]

Dry Clean,

Whether you decide to work or not you will still get the grant if you are self employed. According to MSE you won't have to prove anything.

I cut this from the MSE website.

You can't get statutory sick pay if you're self-employed. But if you have to take time off work because you're sick or self-isolating – or if you've lost all your income due to coronavirus – you might be entitled to claim benefits. Plus further help has been announced in the form of the new Self Employed Income Support Scheme (SEISS)…

What has that got to do with the grant?

The list of qualifying reasons is there to see.

For SSP and other benefits maybe but not for the 80% grant. These are Two completely different benefits.

[Richard iSparkle]

In answer to the OP

When Boris made his announcement I was in London clearing out my youngest daughter's flat (Monday night) I had not planned to work the Tuesday and it gave me time to reflect.

Driving back from London late that evening there was a three way whatsapp conference call between my wife and (me driving) youngest daughter and my two eldest daughters (both married to Window Cleaners, one who had just lost her job).

The subject was whether to work, "moral" and personal decisions, could we work etc. etc.etc.

For the rest of that week I posted on here that I was thinking it through and that my personal view was that I should not work. My sons-in-law made their decisions to start again on the Thursday or Friday of last week.

I had read the regulations and I believed that the "stay at home" outweighed the "should go to work" in the government guidelines. (FOR ME)

Then I had a couple of calls from customers asking what I was doing as they were happy for me to clean with "social distancing" and I told them that for "the time being" I wouldn't be working but was "watching this space.

Some one on here referenced Lee Pryor's site (and that he had started his business working again) and his website referencing  the relevant page of the government regulations. (Highlighted below in red)

With the exception of the organisations covered above in the section on closing certain businesses and venues, the government has not required any other businesses to close - indeed it is important for business to carry on.

So this made me think that I should re-evaluate. I have and I started working again with practical safeguards in place.

I have the "luxury" by good fortune and possibly rainy day saving to have been able to sit this out for far longer than 3 months; but I believe that FOR ME the balanced view is to work FOR THE TIME BEING.

I fully respect the view of others that they wish to follow the overarching view of stay at home but FOR ME AND MY WORK I believe that I can cover a significant proportion of it within Government guidelines on Social Distances and that as I can "I should work".

The thing is Malc, business is carrying on. It's to encourage us not to close our businesses in these difficult times.
It's the same with the employees. They are furloughed so that they might have a job at the end of the lockdown.
The government don't want to happen what's happening in America- a million unemployed in a week and more than that since.
They're saying to us, sit out the storm but don't shut up shop (see what I did there?).
They're giving us a loan to get a boat and a net instead of giving us a few fish, a week, indefinitely.

wow! you honestly read the statement saying 'go into work if you cant work from home.... it is important for business to carry on' as stay at home and collect handouts?

if you need to close because you've lost your profits margins, or because your not well, or because your scared, or you cant work safely... whatever... that is your call. the government have said they'll cover you with their offer.

but to read a clear statement telling business to carry on if you can, as 'sit at home and stop work'... take some mind gymnastics that.

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

I’m still working because I feel I can do so safely, and the government/Experts are encouraging me to do so.

I also feel that we won’t be eligible for the 80% scheme and id rather not be a burden on the government having to accept a hand out.

Let me know when the first window cleaner receives contact from HMRC saying they are eligible. I will be happy if that ever happens but I also won’t hold my breath.

So you believe the Government on one hand and not on the other?

You believe everything your told or nothing?

Exactly, everything he knows about this virus has come through government channels.

Wrong, the issue is-  the level of confidence in the knowledge and advice given by the government and it's advisors regarding this virus. Neither is it an attempt to blame them for what isn't known.

[Dry Clean]

Dry Clean,

Whether you decide to work or not you will still get the grant if you are self employed. According to MSE you won't have to prove anything.

I cut this from the MSE website.

You can't get statutory sick pay if you're self-employed. But if you have to take time off work because you're sick or self-isolating – or if you've lost all your income due to coronavirus – you might be entitled to claim benefits. Plus further help has been announced in the form of the new Self Employed Income Support Scheme (SEISS)…

What has that got to do with the grant?

The list of qualifying reasons is there to see.

For SSP and other benefits maybe but not for the 80% grant. These are Two completely different benefits.

Ok then show me where he says you don't have to be sick, self isolating or have lost work to claim the 80%, I couldn't find it but I'm more than happy to be proved wrong on this one.

[Dry Clean]

I’m still working because I feel I can do so safely, and the government/Experts are encouraging me to do so.

I also feel that we won’t be eligible for the 80% scheme and id rather not be a burden on the government having to accept a hand out.

Let me know when the first window cleaner receives contact from HMRC saying they are eligible. I will be happy if that ever happens but I also won’t hold my breath.

So you believe the Government on one hand and not on the other?

You believe everything your told or nothing?

Exactly, everything he knows about this virus has come through government channels.

Wrong, the issue is-  the level of confidence in the knowledge and advice given by the government and it's advisors regarding this virus. Neither is it an attempt to blame them for what isn't known.

So you believe nothing that the government has said about this virus ?

[Jonny 87]

I’m still working because I feel I can do so safely, and the government/Experts are encouraging me to do so.

I also feel that we won’t be eligible for the 80% scheme and id rather not be a burden on the government having to accept a hand out.

Let me know when the first window cleaner receives contact from HMRC saying they are eligible. I will be happy if that ever happens but I also won’t hold my breath.

So you believe the Government on one hand and not on the other?

I believe the government regarding the “working safely “ aspect. They were clear. Got to work, if you can do so safely.

On the other hand the 80% self employed scheme has too many grey areas. It’s not clear.

In fact they said 5% of self employed people would miss out on this.

Who are the 5%?

They have been clear in saying go to work.
They haven’t been clear to say ones who can work outside safely will still be eligible.

That’s my stand currently.

[Missing Link]

but to read a clear statement telling business to carry on if you can, as 'sit at home and stop work'... take some mind gymnastics that.

Griff's good at mental gymnastics.

Expect him to reply with some nonsense; it may even be incoherent nonsense.

It's his 'go to' tactic when he's cornered.

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

Dry Clean,

Whether you decide to work or not you will still get the grant if you are self employed. According to MSE you won't have to prove anything.

I cut this from the MSE website.

You can't get statutory sick pay if you're self-employed. But if you have to take time off work because you're sick or self-isolating – or if you've lost all your income due to coronavirus – you might be entitled to claim benefits. Plus further help has been announced in the form of the new Self Employed Income Support Scheme (SEISS)…

What has that got to do with the grant?

The list of qualifying reasons is there to see.

For SSP and other benefits maybe but not for the 80% grant. These are Two completely different benefits.

Ok then show me where he says you don't have to be sick, self isolating or have lost work to claim the 80%, I couldn't find it but I'm more than happy to be proved wrong on this one.

Unless you lose zero income or profit due to the impact of covid-19 you qualify for the grant. I find it hard to believe that you will continue throughout this episode without losing a single account?

Claim a grant through the coronavirus (COVID-19) Self-employment Income Support Scheme

Use this scheme if you're self-employed or a member of a partnership and have lost income due to coronavirus.

Published 26 March 2020

From:HM Revenue & Customs

ContentsWho can applyHow much you’ll getHow to applyAfter you’ve appliedOther help you can get

This scheme will allow you to claim a taxable grant worth 80% of your trading profits up to a maximum of £2,500 per month for the next 3 months. This may be extended if needed.

Who can apply

You can apply if you’re a self-employed individual or a member of a partnership and you:

have submitted your Income Tax Self Assessment tax return for the tax year 2018-19traded in the tax year 2019-20are trading when you apply, or would be except for COVID-19intend to continue to trade in the tax year 2020-21have lost trading/partnership trading profits due to COVID-19

Your self-employed trading profits must also be less than £50,000 and more than half of your income come from self-employment. This is determined by at least one of the following conditions being true:

having trading profits/partnership trading profits in 2018-19 of less than £50,000 and these profits constitute more than half of your total taxable incomehaving average trading profits in 2016-17, 2017-18, and 2018-19 of less than £50,000 and these profits constitute more than half of your average taxable income in the same period

If you started trading between 2016-19, HMRC will only use those years for which you filed a Self-Assessment tax return.

If you have not submitted your Income Tax Self-Assessment tax return for the tax year 2018-19, you must do this by 23 April 2020.

HMRC will use data on 2018-19 returns already submitted to identify those eligible and will risk assess any late returns filed before the 23 April 2020 deadline in the usual way.

How much you’ll get

You’ll get a taxable grant which will be 80% of the average profits from the tax years (where applicable):

2016 to 20172017 to 20182018 to 2019

To work out the average HMRC will add together the total trading profit for the 3 tax years (where applicable) then divide by 3 (where applicable), and use this to calculate a monthly amount.

It will be up to a maximum of £2,500 per month for 3 months.

We’ll pay the grant directly into your bank account, in one instalment.

How to apply

You cannot apply for this scheme yet.

HMRC will contact you if you are eligible for the scheme and invite you to apply online.

Individuals do not need to contact HMRC now and doing so will only delay the urgent work being undertaken to introduce the scheme.

You will access this scheme only through GOV.UK. If someone texts, calls or emails claiming to be from HMRC, saying that you can claim financial help or are owed a tax refund, and asks you to click on a link or to give information such as your name, credit card or bank details, it is a scam.

After you’ve applied

Once HMRC has received your claim and you are eligible for the grant, we will contact you to tell you how much you will get and the payment details.

If you claim tax credits you’ll need to include the grant in your claim as income.

Other help you can get

The government is also providing the following additional help for the self-employed:

deferral of Self Assessment income tax payments due in July 2020 and VAT payments due from 20 March 2020 until 30 June 2020grants for businesses that pay little or no business ratesincreased amounts of Universal CreditBusiness Interruption Loan Scheme

If you’re a director of your own company and paid through PAYE you may be able to get support using the Job Retention Scheme.

Published 26 March 2020

Contents

[֍Winp®oClean֍]

I’m still working because I feel I can do so safely, and the government/Experts are encouraging me to do so.

I also feel that we won’t be eligible for the 80% scheme and id rather not be a burden on the government having to accept a hand out.

Let me know when the first window cleaner receives contact from HMRC saying they are eligible. I will be happy if that ever happens but I also won’t hold my breath.

So you believe the Government on one hand and not on the other?

I believe the government regarding the “working safely “ aspect. They were clear. Got to work, if you can do so safely.

On the other hand the 80% self employed scheme has too many grey areas. It’s not clear.

In fact they said 5% of self employed people would miss out on this.

Who are the 5%?

They have been clear in saying go to work.
They haven’t been clear to say ones who can work outside safely will still be eligible.

That’s my stand currently.

The 5% are those with profits over 50k, ltd companies, self employed less than a year , not returned self assessments on time etc.

[G Griffin]

No one can honestly say that their business hasn't been adversely affected by the virus.

Aye they can.  Delivery drivers, truck drivers, anti bac gel manufacturers, bog roll manufacturers, and judging by some of the posts on the forum, whoever makes Toilet Duck.

You missed the 'yet' from my post.
We're just over a week since the chancellor's announcement and some of you are already knee jerking. I'm here to help, if you need it.
Btw, are all the above self employed? I'm pretty sure that a lot of them are not and they haven't been shut down and are not eligible for a grant anyway.
Would you like to try again?

[JackieW]

Dry  Clean,

''Ok then show me where he says you don't have to be sick, self isolating or have lost work to claim the 80%, I couldn't find it but I'm more than happy to be proved wrong on this one.''

I'm pretty sure you won't find it. But that's got nothing to do with it. I think it's called negative proof fallacy.

Don't get me wrong. I felt the same as you with initial doubts on getting the 80% grant.

But it now seems clear to me that the government mean it when they say that about 95% of the 5 million self employed are going to get the 80% grant. I really don't think they would not stick to what they've  said.

[JackieW]

''If you’re self-employed, you’ll get up to £2,500 a month in grants for at least 3 months''

It's on the front page.



https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus

[G Griffin]

In answer to the OP

When Boris made his announcement I was in London clearing out my youngest daughter's flat (Monday night) I had not planned to work the Tuesday and it gave me time to reflect.

Driving back from London late that evening there was a three way whatsapp conference call between my wife and (me driving) youngest daughter and my two eldest daughters (both married to Window Cleaners, one who had just lost her job).

The subject was whether to work, "moral" and personal decisions, could we work etc. etc.etc.

For the rest of that week I posted on here that I was thinking it through and that my personal view was that I should not work. My sons-in-law made their decisions to start again on the Thursday or Friday of last week.

I had read the regulations and I believed that the "stay at home" outweighed the "should go to work" in the government guidelines. (FOR ME)

Then I had a couple of calls from customers asking what I was doing as they were happy for me to clean with "social distancing" and I told them that for "the time being" I wouldn't be working but was "watching this space.

Some one on here referenced Lee Pryor's site (and that he had started his business working again) and his website referencing  the relevant page of the government regulations. (Highlighted below in red)

With the exception of the organisations covered above in the section on closing certain businesses and venues, the government has not required any other businesses to close - indeed it is important for business to carry on.

So this made me think that I should re-evaluate. I have and I started working again with practical safeguards in place.

I have the "luxury" by good fortune and possibly rainy day saving to have been able to sit this out for far longer than 3 months; but I believe that FOR ME the balanced view is to work FOR THE TIME BEING.

I fully respect the view of others that they wish to follow the overarching view of stay at home but FOR ME AND MY WORK I believe that I can cover a significant proportion of it within Government guidelines on Social Distances and that as I can "I should work".

The thing is Malc, business is carrying on. It's to encourage us not to close our businesses in these difficult times.
It's the same with the employees. They are furloughed so that they might have a job at the end of the lockdown.
The government don't want to happen what's happening in America- a million unemployed in a week and more than that since.
They're saying to us, sit out the storm but don't shut up shop (see what I did there?).
They're giving us a loan to get a boat and a net instead of giving us a few fish, a week, indefinitely.

wow! you honestly read the statement saying 'go into work if you cant work from home.... it is important for business to carry on' as stay at home and collect handouts?

if you need to close because you've lost your profits margins, or because your not well, or because your scared, or you cant work safely... whatever... that is your call. the government have said they'll cover you with their offer.

but to read a clear statement telling business to carry on if you can, as 'sit at home and stop work'... take some mind gymnastics that.

My business is still open, Richard.
It'll still be open after three months.
Government wants us to stay open. They are not telling us when to work, they are telling us to stay open, if we can.
Don't knee jerk, Richard.

[RPCCS]

What a lot of people forget is that it's a two way thing.
We need customers and they need us. A good window cleaner is worth keeping hold of and everyone knows what's going on. There'll be loads of people thinking 'oh, I hope such-and-such comes back to do the windows. I don't want anyone else'.
If a customer isn't prepared to wait a few weeks or months for you to clean their windows then they weren't that good of a customer.
It's those with a load of commercial work that I feel sorry for.

Excellent post. Totally agree with the part about good customers waiting for you.

[Granny]

''If you’re self-employed, you’ll get up to £2,500 a month in grants for at least 3 months''
It's on the front page.
https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus

Only if you've been showing average profits at that level for the last 3 years.
The £2500 maximum =80%  of profits > 100% = £3125 X 12 = £37500 p.a.
If you've been earning say £18000 don't think for a minute they will say "Fine here's £7500"
I'm sure the maximum you could claim then would be 80% of £1800 = £1440
Math boffins please check.
I'm being home schooled

[G Griffin]

''If you’re self-employed, you’ll get up to £2,500 a month in grants for at least 3 months''

It's on the front page.



https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus

And you can claim if you're sick.
Here we are trying to help out and we get all this stick. I think we should be classed as frontline.
People are going to work out of fear but going out into a pandemic.
We're here to help.

[G Griffin]

''If you’re self-employed, you’ll get up to £2,500 a month in grants for at least 3 months''
It's on the front page.
https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus

Only if you've been showing average profits at that level for the last 3 years.
The £2500 maximum =80%  of profits > 100% = £3125 X 12 = £37500 p.a.
If you've been earning say £18000 don't think for a minute they will say "Fine here's £7500"
I'm sure the maximum you could claim then would be 80% of £1800 = £1440
Math boffins please check.
I'm being home schooled

I do English too, Granny.
Some call it mental gymnastics though.

[KS Cleaning]

''If you’re self-employed, you’ll get up to £2,500 a month in grants for at least 3 months''
It's on the front page.
https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus

Only if you've been showing average profits at that level for the last 3 years.i
The £2500 maximum =80%  of profits > 100% = £3125 X 12 = £37500 p.a.
If you've been earning say £18000 don't think for a minute they will say "Fine here's £7500"
I'm sure the maximum you could claim then would be 80% of £1800 = £1440
Math boffins please check.
I'm being home schooled

That’s why Jackie says ‘ up to £2500 ‘

[Richard iSparkle]

In answer to the OP

When Boris made his announcement I was in London clearing out my youngest daughter's flat (Monday night) I had not planned to work the Tuesday and it gave me time to reflect.

Driving back from London late that evening there was a three way whatsapp conference call between my wife and (me driving) youngest daughter and my two eldest daughters (both married to Window Cleaners, one who had just lost her job).

The subject was whether to work, "moral" and personal decisions, could we work etc. etc.etc.

For the rest of that week I posted on here that I was thinking it through and that my personal view was that I should not work. My sons-in-law made their decisions to start again on the Thursday or Friday of last week.

I had read the regulations and I believed that the "stay at home" outweighed the "should go to work" in the government guidelines. (FOR ME)

Then I had a couple of calls from customers asking what I was doing as they were happy for me to clean with "social distancing" and I told them that for "the time being" I wouldn't be working but was "watching this space.

Some one on here referenced Lee Pryor's site (and that he had started his business working again) and his website referencing  the relevant page of the government regulations. (Highlighted below in red)

With the exception of the organisations covered above in the section on closing certain businesses and venues, the government has not required any other businesses to close - indeed it is important for business to carry on.

So this made me think that I should re-evaluate. I have and I started working again with practical safeguards in place.

I have the "luxury" by good fortune and possibly rainy day saving to have been able to sit this out for far longer than 3 months; but I believe that FOR ME the balanced view is to work FOR THE TIME BEING.

I fully respect the view of others that they wish to follow the overarching view of stay at home but FOR ME AND MY WORK I believe that I can cover a significant proportion of it within Government guidelines on Social Distances and that as I can "I should work".

The thing is Malc, business is carrying on. It's to encourage us not to close our businesses in these difficult times.
It's the same with the employees. They are furloughed so that they might have a job at the end of the lockdown.
The government don't want to happen what's happening in America- a million unemployed in a week and more than that since.
They're saying to us, sit out the storm but don't shut up shop (see what I did there?).
They're giving us a loan to get a boat and a net instead of giving us a few fish, a week, indefinitely.

wow! you honestly read the statement saying 'go into work if you cant work from home.... it is important for business to carry on' as stay at home and collect handouts?

if you need to close because you've lost your profits margins, or because your not well, or because your scared, or you cant work safely... whatever... that is your call. the government have said they'll cover you with their offer.

but to read a clear statement telling business to carry on if you can, as 'sit at home and stop work'... take some mind gymnastics that.

My business is still open, Richard.
It'll still be open after three months.
Government wants us to stay open. They are not telling us when to work, they are telling us to stay open, if we can.
Don't knee jerk, Richard.

i honestly can't see what you mean.

if the government wanted us to close our business they wouldn't mean, sack your staff, stop trading a close your bank account, they would mean stop working unless you can work from home.

but hey ho, if thats what you want to do thats fine by me.

[G Griffin]

They don't want us to close our businesses. You can be open but not working.
The grant is to help over the next three months, so that you can stay open even though you might not be able to work.